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I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

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Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#361

Post by rcxdude »

FamosoRandom wrote: post #195
operator-name wrote: post #170

This has also been posted to the Minecraft subreddit, where is has received a lot of positive attention from the community: https://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/zf8ye0/i_wrote_t...

This is really interesting to compare both general opinion on HN and on this subreddit. On HN, a place probably filled with technical guys, people are generaly putting themselves in dev shoes. They are accusing the author of feeling entitled to more money because he felt like he was part of the team and that he think his work is equaly important as the work of everyone else. Devs being devs generaly know that coding…

It's also worth noting that the reddit post is a text post which links to the blog post, and the text post content is a lot less negative than the blog post, so it's plausible that people on reddit are mostly reacting to the text post and not reading the blog post.

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#362

Post by Scarblac »

blackoil wrote: post #191
Moru wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mojang was not a tiny indie company though, it already sold millions of copies before the release. Yes, he should have let his agent negotiate the contract. Do what you are good at and let others do what they are good at.

Size of Mojang is immaterial. If Apple or Microsoft hire a copywriter they'll still pay market rate. Any reason to believe the Author would have received bigger value with help of agent in 2010?

His agent would have told him to at least deal with the contract before doing the work, I think.

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#363

Post by Gigachad »

mananaysiempre wrote: post #316
Gigachad wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah looking at the contract, it seems exactly like the kind of thing you’d want to have for content in a game. It removes all complexities as you may need to edit or do whatever to it years later. Imagine if all the developers expected to both be paid to write code and still own the rights to the code.

> Imagine if all the developers expected to both be paid to write code and still own the rights to the code. Developers are accustomed to giving up all artistic agency and authorship, and those who can’t bring themselves to do so give up on being developers. (I’m partly in the latter category.) Thankfully, that isn’t (yet?) as ubiquitous among writers.

What other profession expects to be paid for producing work and expects to keep the result of the work?

The guy got £20,000 for some pages of babel. He should be elated.

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#364

Post by _the_inflator »

Benjamin_Dobell wrote: post #40

I feel for the guy, making a living off of art is difficult. However, with an extensive email chain explaining the story was written as the ending of Minecraft, even going into detail about how it was to be displayed in game, an agreed upon offer (if a bit vague), and then an exchange of funds - with no immediate attempt to return said funds. I'm no lawyer, but that sounds a lot like a legally binding agreement. > So…

Remember MP3? This dude, the inventor, received nothing from it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karlheinz_Brandenburg

This might help talking about fairness when in fact MP3 build the foundation of streaming music. ;)

Same goes for iPad silhouette girl: contract work, nothing else: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPod_advertising

Or the nike logo, or...

It is hard. There won't be so many George Lucas opportunities: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/general-news/george-l...

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#365

Post by nagonago »

FamosoRandom wrote: post #195
operator-name wrote: post #170

This has also been posted to the Minecraft subreddit, where is has received a lot of positive attention from the community: https://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/zf8ye0/i_wrote_t...

This is really interesting to compare both general opinion on HN and on this subreddit. On HN, a place probably filled with technical guys, people are generaly putting themselves in dev shoes. They are accusing the author of feeling entitled to more money because he felt like he was part of the team and that he think his work is equaly important as the work of everyone else. Devs being devs generaly know that coding…

I've noticed as a general trend that Reddit comments tend to be more positive, whereas HN tends to be more critical. On the one hand critical comments can enhance discussion by introducing opposing perspectives, on the other hand they have the danger of lacking empathy or being overly cynical.

In this particular case I see the value of both sides. I sympathize with the writer and think he did a good thing releasing his work into the public domain, yet I also agree with comments that his contract was more reasonable than he makes it out to be.

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#366

Post by iainmerrick »

3np wrote: post #347
iepathos wrote: post #192

The person who really got screwed in all this is poor Charlie, the agent. Here he is managing deals for Julian getting a percentage of those deals and Julian it sounds like is not making much, so Charlie probably isn't making much off Julian either. Julian goes and basically gives away his most successful work to ruthless Mojang and Charlie gets nothing for it at all because Julian keeps Charlie in the dark. Charlie…

Sounds like there was no exclusivity agreement.

But the point is, assuming Charlie is a good agent, Julian would also have made more money (and with less effort) because Charlie would have put in the work to ensure Julian got a good deal.

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#368

Post by baby »

bambax wrote: post #315
Benjamin_Dobell wrote: post #40

I feel for the guy, making a living off of art is difficult. However, with an extensive email chain explaining the story was written as the ending of Minecraft, even going into detail about how it was to be displayed in game, an agreed upon offer (if a bit vague), and then an exchange of funds - with no immediate attempt to return said funds. I'm no lawyer, but that sounds a lot like a legally binding agreement. > So…

That last quote is damning. The game works well without an ending poem -- or an ending, for that matter. I don't play Minecraft but my kids do, and I don't think they know Minecraft has an ending? I certainly didn't. I always thought Minecraft was this unlimited platform where you build things with no specific purpose, for the pleasure of building, like an infinite Lego set. That said, the rant, while much too long i…

A lot of us never actually saw that ending because for the longest time minecraft didn’t have one. It came much much later and was kind of, to my understanding becaude I never finished the game, kind of a random and rushed way to add an ending to the game so that notch could not call it an alpha or something anymore and move on.

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#369

Post by tremon »

Gigachad wrote: post #223
nmfisher wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was my reaction too, 20,000 (euros) seems quite decent for a tiny freelance engagement, and just skimming the contract, that all seems bog-standard, too. If he didn't think the money was fair, he shouldn't have accepted it. I expect Mojang would have simply pulled the plug and gone with someone else if he had done so. This really just smacks of sour grapes that Mojang was sold for squillions and the author feels…

Yeah looking at the contract, it seems exactly like the kind of thing you’d want to have for content in a game. It removes all complexities as you may need to edit or do whatever to it years later. Imagine if all the developers expected to both be paid to write code and still own the rights to the code.

Most freelance developers do? This is a work-for-hire situation, not an employment type situation. Works for hire have a different legal basis than works created as an employee.

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#370

Post by disruptiveink »

pgsandstrom wrote: post #149
rosywoozlechan wrote: post #41

That's a lot of anger, negativity and bitterness, and entitlement (one of the game's creators for writing the ending text?). Reminds me of the kid on the cover of the Nevermind album and other people that are kinda tangentially connected to something massively successful, but not connected enough to benefit materially, and they let that define who they are and ruin their lives. Could have been a neat personal story,…

Im honestly chocked that people react so negatively to this piece. Yes, the author expresses many negative and self centered emotions. He is very clear about that. It is part of the story. It is a story about being a flawed person. I sympathize with him. I loved this piece. I hope he truly did let go of all the hangups he described. And it does seem that he actually did sell the the rights of use to microsoft, making…

He had multiple opportunities to get his agent (and he had one the whole time, which he mentioned early in the story) do the grown up talk for him, and he passed it up every single time. Every time, it's excuse after excuse about why he either sent nonsensical emails when trying to talk to people about compensation or just stayed silent while resenting Mojang for not actively coming after him and shower him with millions out of nowhere.

Honestly very little sympathy from me. I would be beyond pissed if I was trying to close a deal with someone who kept sending me novels over email instead.

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