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Lab-Grown Meat Is Safe to Eat, FDA Says

smithsonianmag.com

361–370 of 493 posts

Re: Lab-Grown Meat Is Safe to Eat, FDA Says

#361
post #180

David Humbird's 2021 paper "Scale-up economics for cultured meat"[1] is a pretty damning study of the problems with lab-grown meat. His core conclusion: "Capital- and operating-cost analyses of conceptual cell-mass production facilities indicate economics that would likely preclude the affordability of their products as food." Does anyone know if the problems that Humbird describes have somehow been solved? [1] https…

I think the approach of this paper is akin to estimating the cost of Microsoft's BHAG ("a PC on every desk") based on the costs of building mainframe computers in 1970.

Here's the key leap of questionable logic (IMO):

> The capital cost of a conceptual bulk animal cell-culture process is developed from the bare-equipment costs of its most important items. From this purchased equipment cost, a total capital investment (TCI) is obtained through the application of cost escalation factors, which are understood to be rather high for biopharmaceutical cell-culture processes

The idea that at scale, it's going to cost $0.75M for a 1m^3 culturing chamber seems crazy to me. I'd guess these are expensive right now because they are specialist equipment (they are manufactured to the ASME bioprocessing standard, which was created for bioprocessing in a pharma/research context), and when they begin being mass-produced I'd estimate they will come down in cost by two orders of magnitude.

(For context, a ~400gal brewery fermentation vessel made of stainless steel can be purchased for about $5k, made in China. It's about 2x for a "made in USA" vessel. These bioreactor vessels are a bit more complex than the standard jacketed fermenters used by brewers, but eyeballing the schematics they do not seem more complex than a steam-jacketed mash tun, for example.)

At high scale, most of the cost is the bioreactors, the rest of the plant, and buildings. I can't find any real working for the capital costs beyond the bioreactors, but given the extremely pessimistic estimate there, I am skeptical about the broader plant estimates too.

TLDR; if you treat this as a pharma process, you will get pharma prices. If you treat this as a food process like beer (which also has sterility requirements, contamination risks, and clean-room cell line propagation requirements to overcome when manufacturing at scale) then the prices will be much lower. I treat this paper as a pessimistic worst-case scenario, and assume that process innovation will allow substantially lower prices.

The fundamental question is whether food-grade fermentation/culturing processes like those used in beer or yoghurt can suffice; for example it seems to me entirely plausible that we could lower the equipment quality requirements substantially, and still obtain a satisfactory safety profile by discarding contaminated batches. Not a cost-effective option for extremely expensive pharmacological products like vaccines, but potentially viable for simple food products like cultured meat.

Re: Lab-Grown Meat Is Safe to Eat, FDA Says

#362
post #133
post #4

Look forward to lab-grown burgers and steaks!

Does it make economic sense to grow wheat, oil and sesame seeds in a lab? Let alone ketchup

If those processes can be refined to be more efficient than they are in nature, then yeah, why wouldn't it?

Re: Lab-Grown Meat Is Safe to Eat, FDA Says

#363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure it's not more expensive. People that are willing to buy vegan are just generally richer and more likely to be able to spend more. Thus the prices are artificially inflated by market segmentation. At least where I'm from the companies make way more profit from their vegan substitutes then their equivalent meat products.

I agree that making the same volume of food is probably cheaper if you're processing vegan only ingredients - but if you look at the amount of nutrients / $, vegan substitutes are nowhere close to meat

That's honestly highly unlikely.

These animals consume the same products the vegan alternatives are made with... for months or years, depending on the animal.

It might be true in places without massive animal farms, but that's usually connected to more human attention which would make it even more unlikely.

Re: Lab-Grown Meat Is Safe to Eat, FDA Says

#365
post #79
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

97%[0] of cows are finished on feedlots, i.e. get a substantial amount of calories from corn and other feed. Other animals like pigs are exclusively fed feed. Animal factory farming already consumes a terrifying amount of resources, using up a lot of the plant agriculture that we do. [0] https://littlecreekmontana.shop/blogs/ranch-blog/food-for-th...

86%[0] of livestock feed is inedible by humans. They consume forage, food-waste and crop residues that could otherwise become an environmental burden. 13% of animal feed consists of potentially edible low-quality grains, which make up a third of global cereal (not total crop) production. All US beef cattle spend the majority of their life on pasture and upcycle protein even when grain-finished (0.6 to 1). [0] http://…

>crop residues that could otherwise become an environmental burden

Could is doing a lot of work here, especially because someone might quickly read this as would. This statistic makes it seem like 36% of non-forage inedibles can only be processed by livestock, but there isn't evidence for that.

Re: Lab-Grown Meat Is Safe to Eat, FDA Says

#367
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a nonsensical comment. Culturing meat is entirely about minimizing resource and land usage, and curbing the serious environmental impacts of the beef industry, which is of course truly infamous for methane emissions and deforestation.

Personally, I doubt that. I strongly suspect that lab-grown meat is mostly about making lots of money selling it for high margins to vegetarians who still want to eat "meat".

It's some revelation that capitalism is driving this? Shocker.

Re: Lab-Grown Meat Is Safe to Eat, FDA Says

#368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our modern way of raising animals for slaughter is just that - modern. Not thousands of years. We have not been pumping steroids into the meat we eat for thousands of years. We give our food substances that fatten them up as quickly as possible, and we're surprised we're getting fat.

We give our food water, but it doesn't quench our thirst. We give our food grass, but it doesn't tear up our teeth. Our food has poop in it, but doesn't taste of poop. Is there any evidence that steroids which are digested by a cow linger in its body as an active substance for years, in a large enough quantity to have a steroid effect after going through another creature's digestive system? Isn't obesity rather well…

No post body was provided.

Re: Lab-Grown Meat Is Safe to Eat, FDA Says

#369
post #64
post #45

Safe yes, but also bland and with no texture. It needs more umami flavour and fibrous texture. They should mix it with Marmite and celery.

My understand is the meatless substitutes are chock full of these additives to try to nail the flavor. I’m sure lab grown protein product will need the same treatment. IMO it’s a nutritional sacrifice in order to avoid eating animal product, not a particularly “healthy” alternative.

All I know is the beyond meat burger I tried was mushy and bland. Quorn's a lot better.

Re: Lab-Grown Meat Is Safe to Eat, FDA Says

#370
post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In return you actually capture carbon into the grasses from the atmosphere. That would normally just rot, but the herbivores digest it and make it bioavailable for the fungi and bacteria in the soil, where the carbon accumulates I'm not entirely convinced by this argument. A lot of the ecological arguments against meat-eating is because cattle grazing requires huge swaths of land. Current practices generate this lan…

> Current practices generate this land via deforestation Current practices in undeveloped countries. Advanced economies have been reforesting recently. https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/AG.LND.FRST.ZS?location...

Livestock is generally bad for the environment, I think mostly the argument is mostly about "how bad."
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