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Justice Department announces takedown of catalytic converter theft ring

justice.gov

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Re: Justice Department announces takedown of catalytic converter theft ring

#361

Post by tourist2d »

googlryas wrote: post #336
insaneirish wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Really wish the cops would download a list of who installed this app and find their location data on top of a map of reported thefts... Uh... So, I too found the website and couldn't believe how brazen the business is. I too was surprised about the app. If I downloaded the app because I was so surprised, should my name be given to the police as part of this investigation? That's ridiculous.

Sure, why not? It's not like anyone is saying merely installing the app makes you guilty of anything. It's just a lead. Police chase leads all the time and then abandon when they determine the person isn't involved in the crime.

By that logic you're fine with Google handing over all users' location data to the police? Since the police can just determine if you're not involved in crime from it.

Re: Justice Department announces takedown of catalytic converter theft ring

#362

Post by [deleted] »

fastball wrote: post #231
insaneirish wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Really wish the cops would download a list of who installed this app and find their location data on top of a map of reported thefts... Uh... So, I too found the website and couldn't believe how brazen the business is. I too was surprised about the app. If I downloaded the app because I was so surprised, should my name be given to the police as part of this investigation? That's ridiculous.

Why is that ridiculous? Information like that is subpoena'd all the time. An inadvertent customer of a criminal organization is still a customer of a criminal organization. If you're not dealing in stolen catalytic converters not really sure why you would care if the cops know you downloaded an app for that.

[deleted]

Re: Justice Department announces takedown of catalytic converter theft ring

#363

Post by googlryas »

vogt wrote: post #360
googlryas wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, why not? It's not like anyone is saying merely installing the app makes you guilty of anything. It's just a lead. Police chase leads all the time and then abandon when they determine the person isn't involved in the crime.

>Sure, why not? Well, for starters, to prevent the police from kicking my door in and shooting me or my pets simply because I was placed on a list of people who downloaded an app. Simply "police chase and abandon leads all the time" is not a strong enough rationale to justify the original suggestion to me.

So you think the police will kick down the door of the 50,000 people who downloaded the app?

Re: Justice Department announces takedown of catalytic converter theft ring

#364

Post by vinay427 »

WalterBright wrote: post #352
skeeter2020 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever been to a pawn shop? Everything in a legit operation runs through this process. >> The choice is between law enforcement actually doing their job, or invasive and ineffectual laws like this. I'm on guard for overreah all the time, but I'm OK with showing ID to buy alcohol, drive a car, fly on a plane, sell items that should rarely be done in bulk outside of rare conditions, like a bunch of catalytic converters.

In Washington State, there's a new law where I not only have to show ID to buy booze, I have to have my ID scanned. So now, the government keeps track of what and how much booze I buy. Ugh. This is beyond stupid, as people stopped thinking I might be under 21 back when the buffalo roamed.

Is this a law that mandates scanning of IDs for authenticity purposes or storing that data?

The few other states I could easily find online that had a similar law typically require that retailers either don’t store the data or that they delete it within X days.

Re: Justice Department announces takedown of catalytic converter theft ring

#365

Post by googlryas »

tourist2d wrote: post #361
googlryas wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, why not? It's not like anyone is saying merely installing the app makes you guilty of anything. It's just a lead. Police chase leads all the time and then abandon when they determine the person isn't involved in the crime.

By that logic you're fine with Google handing over all users' location data to the police? Since the police can just determine if you're not involved in crime from it.

Google isn't some app designed for criminals, so no.

Re: Justice Department announces takedown of catalytic converter theft ring

#366

Post by tpxl »

heleninboodler wrote: post #358
Test0129 wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think a law like that is really a problem. There are already laws on the books similar to it (pawn shop laws and such) where KYC is a big thing to prevent the fencing of stolen goods. It can be as simple as this: 1. Joe brings in a cat 2. Store takes the cat, but writes down Joes important information (DL #, name, address, etc) 3. If Joe brings a new cat in within some reasonable time period factoring in poss…

> There is absolutely no "intrusion" to speak of here. Well, there is, actually. I think it's a bit histrionic to worry about it, but we definitely have intruded on Joe's freedom to buy and sell cats. Maybe he's into cat arbitrage. Maybe he makes them himself. Maybe he's got a lot of cars he doesn't need to drive and is strapped for cash. The point of the sticklers for freedom here is that regular citizens shouldn't…

> but we definitely have intruded on Joe's freedom to buy and sell cats

No we haven't. Joe is free to resell converters, provided he proves he obtained them legally, which is trivial _if_ you obtained them legally.

Re: Justice Department announces takedown of catalytic converter theft ring

#367

Post by tpxl »

SoftTalker wrote: post #243
dylan604 wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As connected as modern EV cars are, stealing one would seem like a dumb decision since they'll know exactly where the car is. I know chop shops are quick, but I still wouldn't want to knowingly bring something with tracking devices into my criminal lair.

They'll figure out how to cut or disable the antenna and/or transmitter pretty quickly.

Load it up onto a container truck and you got yourself a nice Faraday cage to block the trackers.

Re: Justice Department announces takedown of catalytic converter theft ring

#368

Post by re »

WalterBright wrote: post #352
skeeter2020 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever been to a pawn shop? Everything in a legit operation runs through this process. >> The choice is between law enforcement actually doing their job, or invasive and ineffectual laws like this. I'm on guard for overreah all the time, but I'm OK with showing ID to buy alcohol, drive a car, fly on a plane, sell items that should rarely be done in bulk outside of rare conditions, like a bunch of catalytic converters.

In Washington State, there's a new law where I not only have to show ID to buy booze, I have to have my ID scanned. So now, the government keeps track of what and how much booze I buy. Ugh. This is beyond stupid, as people stopped thinking I might be under 21 back when the buffalo roamed.

It's not state law, whoever told you that is misinformed. It's just the policy of the store you go to (presumably QFC/Fred Meyer).

Re: Justice Department announces takedown of catalytic converter theft ring

#370

Post by tpxl »

Scoundreller wrote: post #192
jakogut wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In case anyone thinks this is cost prohibitive or the tooling is rare, a $100 battery powered grinder you can buy from Home Depot will do this in five seconds. If you have a little less money and a little more time, a $5 flat file will do the same thing in a few minutes.

Depends. The number stamping process does change the metal’s underlying metallurgy throughout the the metal where it was stamped. So unless you drill out the number through the entire metal (which is viable if you’re going to extract the minerals), there’s a possibility of reconstructing the serial number with some level of probability. Happens with guns. But that’s why you criminalize the trade of unmarked parts. Ac…

> The number stamping process does change the metal’s underlying metallurgy throughout the the metal where it was stamped. So unless you drill out the number through the entire metal (which is viable if you’re going to extract the minerals), there’s a possibility of reconstructing the serial number with some level of probability.

Do you happen to have more information on that?

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