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Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

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Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#361

Post by phpisthebest »

unity1001 wrote: post #331
phpisthebest wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Take a weekend off and calculate how much 'fees' you would have to pay for 'private defense services', infrastructure, judiciary, police and all the other things if they were made private. This assumes alot of things, like that I reject all forms of taxation which I dont just income based. You know this because you already replied to a comment where I layout my preferred public finance model which you also ignored i…

> This assumes alot of things, like that I reject all forms of taxation which I dont just income based. You know this because you already replied to a comment where I layout my preferred public finance model which you also ignored in that comment in favor of a semantic logical fallacy debate. so i question if you actually want to have an honest conversation If non-income based taxation worked, societies would be usin…

>If non-income based taxation worked, societies would be using it.

They do, very successfully and most of the government services you and others have aurgued with me about income tax providing are not infact provided for by income taxes in the US. Roads, Schools, Police, Fire, etc almost none of that is funded by Income Taxes, it is funded by Property Taxes, Sales Taxes,and excise taxes.

In the US income Taxation is used for 4 main things. Social programs, National Defense, Science (Nasa, etc) and Administration / regulation

>the democratically owned and controlled society

Ahh the religion of democracy. also known as 2 wolves and a lamb voting for what they will have for dinner. This idea that democracy "provides" rights is laughable for anyone that understands anything about history which clearly you do not

>you are still paying the $4 trillion Iraqi war debt that you accrued for the privilege of murdering 1 million Iraqis, and your infrastructure is failing.

It si very ironic that you defend income based taxation, most likely because your socialist mind believes that is the way to "eat the rich" never realizing that income based taxation is the fuel for the engine of the war machine, and absent income based taxation the government would not have the ability to use the war machine in that manner. You are defending the very tool they use to murder people but you are soo blinded by your jealousy of the rich you believe would get ahead under a non-income based system you fail to understand that the rich WANT an income based system of taxation, that income based taxation is regressive (not progressive like proponents of the so called progressive income tax claim), and that a single tax system could be used to create universal income, and would actually help reduce income inequality

Smash the State, Eat the Rich[1]. The freed market, without all the distortions and giveaways by the state such as price and wage controls, licensing and safety requirements, limited liability, costly regulation, capitalization requirements, quantitative easing, financial regulation, zoning requirements, protectionist trade policy, intellectual property laws, and various other barriers to entry all promote centralization and cartelization, is truly an equalizing force

[1]https://c4ss.org/content/30085

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#362

Post by jedberg »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #343
michaelmrose wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instead of re-litigating the employment issues couldn't they just sue to enforce the fact that they didn't pay their bill in the other suite? Also unless they have zero assets in the EU wouldn't other member states potentially be an option to seize said assets?

I don't think that the trial decision in a foreign court is binding in US courts. The US court will not enforce them because they are completely different jurisdictions

I'm not 100% sure but I think one of our treaties with the Netherlands is that we enforce each other's laws/court judgements.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#363

Post by fsw »

enedil wrote: post #306
Symbiote wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many countries go further, but the EU does require a minimum. - 4 weeks paid holiday - 4 months unpaid parental leave, 14 weeks paid for the mother https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_labour_law is the best overview I can find.

I'm not sure how it's counted, but in Poland we initially get 20 days and 26 after you work several years. Maybe the 4 weeks include national holidays, which don't count into the limit I mentioned.

20 days are 4 weeks if you work 5 days per week.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#364

Post by HowTheStoryEnds »

phpisthebest wrote: post #253
isodev wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s because when you hire employees they come with the aspect of being “people”. People work to live, they don’t live to work.

This has the very very close connotation to "from each according to ability to each according to need" I live a very frugle life, my expenses are low, I have no kids, I dont take expensive vacations, drive a fancy car, etc... So should that mean I do not get time off, or high raises, etc simply because my "needs" are not the same as a co-worker? Why should a co-workers personal life choices (i.e the choice to have 1…

> Sounds like you would support a policy of income based on your personal expenses. Should the programmer with 5 kids make more than the programmer with no kids simply because the programmer with kids has more expenses?

First time in Europe? That's pretty much a given here, more kids = bigger tax break = more netto pay.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#365

Post by unity1001 »

phpisthebest wrote: post #361
unity1001 wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This assumes alot of things, like that I reject all forms of taxation which I dont just income based. You know this because you already replied to a comment where I layout my preferred public finance model which you also ignored in that comment in favor of a semantic logical fallacy debate. so i question if you actually want to have an honest conversation If non-income based taxation worked, societies would be usin…

>If non-income based taxation worked, societies would be using it. They do, very successfully and most of the government services you and others have aurgued with me about income tax providing are not infact provided for by income taxes in the US. Roads, Schools, Police, Fire, etc almost none of that is funded by Income Taxes, it is funded by Property Taxes, Sales Taxes,and excise taxes. In the US income Taxation is…

> They do, very successfully and most of the government services you and others have aurgued with me about income tax providing are not infact provided for by income taxes in the US. Roads, Schools, Police, Fire, etc almost none of that is funded by Income Taxes, it is funded by Property Taxes, Sales Taxes,and excise taxes.

US police is not an example of anything. They are literally fining people to fill their quotas to support the budget, leave aside their murderous practices. American schools neither are - the quality of American education has gone downhill since state-subsidized education was done for. Your roads are literally disintegrating, brigdges are falling down as people drive on it.

No. Those schemes just do not work. They never worked in history for any society, and they don't seem like working in the US.

> Ahh the religion of democracy. also known as 2 wolves and a lamb voting for what they will have for dinner.

That's your endemic American problem thanks to your two party system due to FPTP and your anti-government indoctrination. Government and democracy pretty much work well anywhere else in the world.

> the rich WANT an income based system of taxation

The rich don't want any taxation. The rich want the late 19th century environment in which they could just buy and own anything. The only way that they were reined in was after T. Roosevelt brought all those pesky antitrust regulations and FDR piled up the taxes and social programs. Otherwise it was a Dickensian world.

> is truly an equalizing force

The free market handed over ENTIRE US to ~12 robber barons to own when it was as free as possible in the late 1800s.

Randian 'free cities' and environments ended up in hellholes.

https://www.gawker.com/ayn-rands-capitalist-paradise-is-now-...

The decline of central state allowed local feudal lords to rise and own everything and everyone toward the end of Roman empire.

Chinese history is full of examples repeating the same, the 'free' market giving way to warlords who stomped down people like you when they had the chance.

We have been there, done that. And yet here you are, still PREACHING the same thing from a country that KILLS its people if they cant pay for healthcare.

That's why it is called a belief, a religion. For there isn't anything other than your faith backing it.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#366

Post by phpisthebest »

bernulli wrote: post #337
RHSeeger wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's a lot of people that want things to be fair at the individual level ("that person gets time off for a child, but that other, childless person works the whole time")... but don't see the greater "benefit to society overall" part of it. It's not necessarily that they're being greedy; it may not even be something that would benefit them directly. They just never consider that they're paying a cost for th…

It really is a tragedy of the commons with a changing demographic, where DINK are more prevalent that, say, 50 years ago, where most tried to contribute to raising the next generation. But the amount of entitlement still baffles me - where do these people think everyone younger than them comes from? How much time and money do they think it costs to train a human being to be a member of society, of benefit to them!, a…

>why do they just assume it is someone else's duty to provide this to them, free of charge to them?

Why do you assume I would think it is someone else's duty to provide anything to me? This seems to be a bit of projection.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#367

Post by peyton »

jedberg wrote: post #362
s1artibartfast wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that the trial decision in a foreign court is binding in US courts. The US court will not enforce them because they are completely different jurisdictions

I'm not 100% sure but I think one of our treaties with the Netherlands is that we enforce each other's laws/court judgements.

Think the US famously never signs treaties like that. Our courts decide.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#368

Post by Falkon1313 »

lloydatkinson wrote: post #139
blub wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PIPs are a tool for managing out employees that don’t perform well or don’t yield to often abusive company demands like e.g. overtime or pissed of somebody in management or connected to management.

I’ve never ever ever seen a PIP used in a positive way. It’s almost always been a way for petty toxic management that resented an employee not tolerating an abusive environment.

Yeah, I had a manager PIP me out once like that. I was required to work until midnight to hit a deadline, then get on a call until 3am with the contractors in India, and when my butt wasn't back in the office chair by 8:30am the next day, I was written up for being late. Another warning came from refusing to stay more than 3 hours late one night (unplanned overtime) because I had plans that night, which made me 'not a team player'. After those two warnings, it only took me being randomly 5 minutes late one day for the third and final.

Oddly enough, after we 'mutually agreed to terminate my employment' there, I got a call from the director of another department offering me a job in his department and, most surprisingly, a really glowing recommendation on LinkedIn from the very manager that fired me.

I don't claim to understand it. But I do understand why the company had such high turnover, and why the guy I had been hired to replace had gone on mental health leave and just never came back.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#369

Post by s1artibartfast »

jedberg wrote: post #362
s1artibartfast wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that the trial decision in a foreign court is binding in US courts. The US court will not enforce them because they are completely different jurisdictions

I'm not 100% sure but I think one of our treaties with the Netherlands is that we enforce each other's laws/court judgements.

Looks like it comes down to a each state to determine how and if they will honor decisions for other Nations.

Here is some information I could find[1].

Obviously, there is a lot of variability here, and I don't there are blanket agreements to enforce judgements. It is hard to imagine the Netherlands forcing payment for an abortion damages judgement from a Texas court .

https://www.gibsondunn.com/wp-content/uploads/documents/publ...

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#370

Post by userbinator »

Chetu argued instead that the webcam was no different than if the worker had been present in the office being observed by management.

Is this a company where a manager is literally watching over employees for the whole day? I don't think that's normal outside of things like production lines and other blue-collar type environments.

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