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Stripe has decided to nuke my entire business

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Re: Stripe has decided to nuke my entire business

#361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

display_cc_form_that_handles_cc_data_so_we_do_not_have_to() { which_one = random_number(3) switch which_one { case 1: display_authorizedotnet_form() break case 2: display_stripe_form() break default: display_paypal_form() } } Plus the same integration work for each one that you'd have to do anyway (which may be little or none if you're using a platform that integrates all of them via plugins or settings or whatever)…

The problem is with recurring payments. If you used this approach and 1/3 of your customers were initially billed through Stripe, then if Stripe bans you then you can't charge the next month's bill through something else because you don't have the stored data for it, you have to ask them to re-enter data in another processor's system.

Another wrinkle, in practice, is that you can often negotiate significant discounts on fees, based on volume, if you've got enough of it. Yes, including with Stripe and other places that have fairly-transparent public pricing—the big-boys don't pay those rates, they pay lower ones negotiated with a sales rep.

Splitting up your payments reduces your volume with each one, which can mean you're paying higher rates overall. Or, if you go the "keep an unused alternative on standby" route, you'll likely at least have some initial traffic that pays higher public-pricing rates until you can convince them to give you a better rate, and put it in effect.

Still might be worth it as a kind of insurance premium, but it's something to consider.

Re: Stripe has decided to nuke my entire business

#362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> PayPal and Stripe don't advertise that they will only do business with organizations with which they agree. https://stripe.com/legal/restricted-businesses

> Firearms, explosives and dangerous materials > Guns, gunpowders, ammunitions, weapons, fireworks and other explosives. Peptides, research chemicals, and other toxic, flammable and radioactive materials Why does the payment processor get to dictate whether I can run a defense ordnance company or run a scientific chemical supplies store? Some of this stuff needs to be challenged in the court or regulated so that paym…

On the off chance there are more regulatory requirements to accept this sort of business and they don't want to build out the support necessary to do so? Maybe there's different risk profiles that they're not willing to accept

Re: Stripe has decided to nuke my entire business

#363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What specifically is the regulatory gap here?

'due process' concerns around sudden blocking of routine traffic -- should platforms give notice, are they required to justify the ban in terms of their TOS + enforcement history, what is the time scale of appeals, can customers appeal to an independent body, and reporting transparency for enforcement

This. If you’re providing financial infrastructure, there should be exception recourse versus customers having to come to public forums to beg for help. You know, like banking regulation.

Re: Stripe has decided to nuke my entire business

#364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Firearms, explosives and dangerous materials > Guns, gunpowders, ammunitions, weapons, fireworks and other explosives. Peptides, research chemicals, and other toxic, flammable and radioactive materials Why does the payment processor get to dictate whether I can run a defense ordnance company or run a scientific chemical supplies store? Some of this stuff needs to be challenged in the court or regulated so that paym…

You mean the belief system of wanting to not get sued by someone who get's hurt or killed?

I was considering starting a weapons ordnance company, getting federal ATF license and bid on a contract to USG and NATO forces. I guess Stripe billing isn't going to be our choice of service. Stripe has really good invoice/PO processing APIs.

Re: Stripe has decided to nuke my entire business

#365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that my real HN account is my actual name. It'd be like 2 clicks to figure out what my business is.

Yeah, me too. I was wrong to suspect that you wanted to avoid associating your business with your HN content. So, are you trying to avoid leaving an online record of "this business helped Stripe screw over its customers"? Unless your customers have strong incentives not to talk publicly about their experiences, that ship has sailed...

Ha, not quite. It's more I'm concerned that people considering using my product will see this in the future (hopefully when this issue is resolved) and be wary of doing business with us.

Re: Stripe has decided to nuke my entire business

#366

It sucks this happened to you, but like with all the PayPal hate stories, I notice you're very careful not to describe what type of business you operate.

FWIW, there was a story about this sort of issue on national radio (in the US) a few weeks ago. The gist of it was "I can't rely on Stripe for my payment system because they vanish too much for too long." The businesses were very not shady, and nowhere near morally controversial. My impression from that piece and these stories is that Stripe is having some technical problems and it's wreaking havoc everywhere.

I'd be curious to listen to this if you have a link?

Re: Stripe has decided to nuke my entire business

#367
post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

display_cc_form_that_handles_cc_data_so_we_do_not_have_to() { which_one = random_number(3) switch which_one { case 1: display_authorizedotnet_form() break case 2: display_stripe_form() break default: display_paypal_form() } } Plus the same integration work for each one that you'd have to do anyway (which may be little or none if you're using a platform that integrates all of them via plugins or settings or whatever)…

It's been a long time since I've worked in eCommerce but at my last ecom role we used two payment processors and simply stored the card data with both for every customer, and the relevant IDs in the customer record in the database. Whenever anything got charged we'd check which processor we were supposed to use and off we went. Yes this has an increased cost if your processor charges by number of customers, but I don…

Great solution, I wouldn't have thought of this. Did you ever get complaints about the charge description looking different month to month, or did both processors pass the same description to the customer's credit card?

Re: Stripe has decided to nuke my entire business

#368
post #158
post #87

The worst part about these type of cases is not being able to get a straight answer. There is a whole subset of big tech that has taken the "you must be a fraudster therefore we can't unfuck the situation" approach to customer support. It's an arms race with fraudsters that eventually sucks in legitimate businesses.

IMO it is not the "you must be a fraudster" logic as much as "we have enough other customers that we can burn you without much worry of repercussions". As much as I hate government intervention in business, it really seems like there needs to be a way to force companies to actually be direct, accessible, and reactive in cases like this. I went through something similar with Venmo randomly locking my account after I r…

Not to put on too much tinfoil but the government probably benefits from opaque ban processes in large oligopolistic private companies. “It’s private enterprise, sure we may request it periodically but their cooperation is entirely voluntary based on their civic pride.”

Re: Stripe has decided to nuke my entire business

#369
post #198

I had a very similar experience, except it was on our launch day . We hadn't charged a single live customer yet, but we had done plenty of tests using the Stripe testing environment. So we go live with a huge launch event, and we have customers signing up in droves. When they get to the last step -- payment -- they get an error. Logging in to the dashboard I didn't see any indication that there was anything wrong wit…

That's how AMEX shut us our corporate credit card account overnight. We launched a new shopping cart and tested it live in production with our own AMEX card. Mind you that we used that card for over $250k a month (never a late payment) and this was a $99 charge that we simply forgot to refund.

No appeal process, nothing. Caused significant short term cash flow issues. So be very careful using your own card.

Re: Stripe has decided to nuke my entire business

#370
I'm sorry this is impacting your business, but I can't help but notice something missing from your account: a clear claim that your business (and your customers' businesses) are fully compliant [to the best of your knowledge] with Stripe's ToS.

That might be an oversight on your part or "something that goes without saying", but when your counter to the accounts being flagged "as not in compliance with Stripe's ToS" does not include "hell yes, they're/we're in compliance with the ToS", it leaves me wondering whether you're in a grey or dark grey area here.

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