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At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

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Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get the feeling you don't really understand how racism works. It doesn't mean "I think everyone from a different ethnic background is somehow a worse person". It's often completely subconscious - your reaction to the observed behaviour of another person is nearly always coloured to some extent by the degree you consider them part of some category largely based on their superficial physical appearance (skin colour,…

Well, I actually agree with you to some extent. I've been saying for a long time that everyone is prejudiced in some way. But that is never going to change. Human beings are, by nature, tribal. Even if we do it only on a subconscious level. To that point, some of the most racist people I know are black people. Growing up as a black person myself in Brooklyn, and hearing it spoken often, I can tell you that there is n…

> But the current state of discourse on this topic is a complete joke.

I want to make it clear that I agree with you 100% on that much. We're more polarized this year than last year, and we already thought it was very polarized then. I was born in the 70's, I'm an attentive and perceptive dude, and I've never seen anything close to this. People tell me it was worse right before I was born. Someone here gave me a book about the Weather Underground but I haven't finished it yet.

I think it's a blessing in a way that everyone lives in their phone. If the culture war were playing out predominately in meat space, way more people would be dying.

The kids call ideas from 20 years ago reactionary. Wait, hold up. Too many of the kids -know- and believe they -need- the word reactionary, what the fuck, and I'm not talking about vocab.

But I still maintain that the policed do not bear more responsibility than the police. The police are the professionals, and they're the ones empowered to kill people.

Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are actions by a government... "the free market"?

The “/s” is Internet forum code for “sarcasm” which is a type of humour. This indicates the author knows it’s not true, but perhaps thinks it’s it would be funny if it was true.

“/s” - learning new things...When did this come about though?

Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#363

Years ago, I got a speeding ticket. I worked nights at the time, and the office to make the payment at had very strange hours because it was from a tiny town. My schedule made it difficult to make it over to the office during open hours, and one of the times I tried it was closed randomly over lunch because again, small town. (I learned later there was only one person who ran the whole office.) A day after my speedin…

> It taught me a serious lesson about the law: They exist only for power and profit. I understand your frustration, but the law does not exist ONLY (or at all, if I'm being honest) for power and profit. The law exists to provide each person with a baseline to guide their interactions, whether it be between them and other individuals, or between them and their government. Now, obviously you have abuses and especially…

>I understand your frustration, but the law does not exist ONLY (or at all, if I'm being honest) for power and profit.

Sigh, another kid who has not faced life.

Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There isn’t enough profit... Some private prison corporations and judges both felt it was profitable enough. Two Pennsylvania judges received $2.8M in bribes from private prisons to send 4,000 kids to the private prisons with long sentences; apparently ruining 4,000 kids lives was profitable enough to justify $2.8M in bribes. One of the judges has managed to get released early. https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-w…

Right, you’ll see pockets of individual corruption but that doesn’t account for why there is a systemic overpopulation. Unless you are suggesting every judge is on the take, in which case no amount of law reform will matter without first removing all of the judges.

I am suggesting that this example of corruption is evidence that there is sufficient profit in private prisons to motivate efforts (legal and illegal) to affect policy.

E.g., private prisons likely spend at least as much in legal lobbying efforts to maintain high prison populations as they do in bribes.

Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would that occur to you?

UK prisons are overcrowded, in poor condition, expensive, and the land for those 127 prisons could be used to provide inexpensive housing for the poor here.

Oh yea, “we shouldn’t be keeping all those people in prisons” is obvious. “We should send them to worse places” is…not.

Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#366
post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is frustrating, but when were you planning to pay? Couldn’t you have mailed it in? Suspended license driving is anti-social. Any law with a firm cutoff or deadline, and no gradual increase of penalty, sucks for those who barely miss complying with it. There needs to be some kind of consequence, though.

Sorry but isn't the purpose of such licensing requirements to ensure that the roads are safe? If so, why would him having a debt to the state matter? Clearly him mailing the cash or not wouldn't change his risk profile for driving. The anti-social thing here is to leverage what is ostensibly a safety concern into a tool of compliance.

Yes. Like the other responses, you’re only seeing the original ticket when replying to a comment about driving on a suspended license.

As I alluded to, a gradual system of consequences building to suspension, or some other method of easing into or helping avoid the penalty state, would be more fair, especially for light offenses like the OP’s.

That does not change that we expect people not to drive on public roads when they’re barred from using them.

Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#367
post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was detained for 20 minutes for cutting across what I perceived as some empty field, 300 meters down the street from my brother's house. Turns out it was private property, and we weren't in the UK. I presume some busibody at their window called the police. It's a pretty posh subdivision. The land is literally much more valuable than other people's, and I went and walked on it like a wild animal. But that leaves the…

It really has nothing to do with race and everything to do with upbringing. How come black people (specifically African-Americans) are the only people who seem to have these "racism" issues with police? What about other minorities? How many Indians do you see on TV fighting with police or getting shot? What about Hispanics or Asians? Hell, what about African immigrants? It seems quite strange to me that for all this…

The national news does largely focus on African American people. I don't attempt to have an explanation for that, but it is noted and acknowledged.

Living in Denver for three years and having great HD over the air TV I'd watch the local news while cooking meals. The local news spent considerable time discussing the issues plaguing the refugees with their relationships with certain local law enforcement agencies, as well as the large Hispanic populations. I spent a lot of time hanging out with some refugees and it was interesting to hear their perspectives versus that of my barber who was Hispanic. Not once was my refugee ever asked to prove they were here legally, but my barber was nearly every time he had any kind of interaction with the police where they had some reason to fish for a reason to ask for identification.

Where I live in Central Texas now, it's largely about Hispanic interactions in the news or the continued coverage of the most recent large school shooting here. A huge complexity added to many Hispanic populations around the US is the ability to comfortably and freely voice their frustration without risk of deportation. A lot of abuse they suffer at the hand of law enforcement goes unnoticed on the national scene because they don't want to take to the streets about it and risk losing literally everything they own including the clothes they are wearing when they are arrested.

I'm only 1/4th Hispanic and while I haven't ever been pulled in Central Texas, in the the Dallas suburb of McKinney Texas, where I lived for about a decade I got pulled over all the time and every time they were baffled when #1 I don't know Spanish at all, beyond basic food names from eating at food trucks, #2 I have a slight southern accent because I grew up in Arkansas and sound like everyone else I was around, and #3 I wasn't some easy score for them.

Of the 30+ times I got pulled over on the east-side of McKinney, not once was I ever given a ticket or arrested me but it came pretty freakin' close and I can't imagine how much differently if I didn't immediately register as "he actually might be white".

I have done the following in McKinney, Allen, and/or Frisco Tx:

* Had to do the stupid human tricks on the side of the road before noon, because they claimed I was swerving and they smelled a hint of alcohol on my breath.

* Blown in a breathalyzer in the parking lot of an elementary school because the law enforcement officer camped out using the school as place to nail speeders said I was driving erratically and was staggering as I got out of my car. The erratic driving was specifically around having issues parking. Due to an injury I needed to be able to open my car door all the way open and when I realized I couldn't, I decided to back up and move over a bit more so I could open it all the way. That was the bad driving. The stagger was actually a limp if I put too much pressure on my left leg.

To add insult to injury, the final kick in the balls, etc. was when he started trying to imply I was there for questionable reasons when I was actually there to drop off lunch to my wife who had taught at the school for several years at that point and I routinely volunteered at the school which meant I had actually passed a more rigorous background check than he did to get his job.

* Been accused of having a fake id drivers license because for whatever reason their inability to find something about me to give me a ticket or arrest me on resorts to petty accusations to attempt to get a rise out of me so that they can escalate it even more till they can arrest me for making them scared, or worse they can use their terrible training and end up panicking and pulling their weapon and firing on the extreme end outcome of things.

Too many times to count I was told in parting words I could avoid these problems staying out of the east side of town because that is where all the problems are, or for the times I got pulled over close to home in the more affluent side of town that I should get a better car so I don't stand out and look questionable.

At the time I drove upwards of 100 miles round trip a day, my daily commute car was a highly efficient but very basic American cross over SUV that I picked up used but with less than 100 miles from a rental car agency that went bankrupt. That car also happened to be one of the most popular cars for whatever reason with Mexican people in many areas of Texas. Strike 1. Because I was in the car so much with the long slow commute, I had the windows tinted to protect the interior from UV damage and to protect the left side of my body from multiple hours a day of exposure to the sun due travel directions. Strike 2. Despite identifying as white, I love Tejano music and many other Hispanic musics for their complex guitar playing. Strike 2.5. Go to rich side of Texas suburb or go to area believed to be plagued with problems with immigrants and I had a pretty high chance of getting that third strike by just driving through with music barely audible beyond my car, and I don't listen to anything with a lot of bass or even loud volume. I'm talking side by side at a red light we'd both need our windows down and you'd still probably only be able to hear it as if it was elevator music in a real elevator.

Just because whatever circles of friends or media you consume doesn't focus on a problem does not mean it does not exist. Many of these strained relationships the communities have with law enforcement are not without complex histories and a refusal largely one sided to hold their people accountable to a degree so that trust is restored and the wall of division is broken down.

I have a very short list of people I would be willing to take a physical bullet for and one of them is a cop and they aren't someone related to me, I didn't know them all my life at the time when they'd gotten on that list, etc. It was their actions and humility that put them on that list.

When the police consider their community to be their community things turn out very differently than when the police have zero vested interest in their communities. When you have law enforcement officers who view themselves as warriors and take jobs in areas where crime, especially violent crime, occurs often because they want to live out some kind of deranged fantasy of being some kind of super hero you end up with vested interest in escalating any encounter with the public.

When the police remember that they serve the public, and not the other way around things are very different. The problem is there are many communities where they are policed by outsiders who look nothing like them, have zero history with the community, and honestly don't care what happens to any of the people in those communities.

This happens all over Texas, because the fact of the matter is being a cop fucking sucks. So all levels of policing recruit from all over the state and country trying to get people to move to those areas with crime.

It is boring as hell 99.9999% of the time, so to fill that time they start figuring out any and everything they can do to fill that time. They pick whatever activities make them sleep better at night, feel like they are earning their keep, ..

The problem is when there isn't much really going on you have some people who will start creating problems just to have something to do. It is what bully's do. The problem is the power balance is very different.

Because of this very difference in power I consider it imperative to ask a question when I make the decision to call 911 for anything where I'm asking for the police, especially if the person I'm calling about is a minority: If I were to go outside with my own weapon instead, would I think their current activity and it's likely progression to be something that is worth killing them over because the minute I go outside with my own weapon visible I am making the decision that I am prepared to use it and live with whatever outcomes happen.

I extend that logic to calling 911 for anything that warrants the police and I highly encourage anyone else to seriously consider using some variation of it when they call as well.

Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The “/s” is Internet forum code for “sarcasm” which is a type of humour. This indicates the author knows it’s not true, but perhaps thinks it’s it would be funny if it was true.

“/s” - learning new things...When did this come about though?

It's a shortened form of , a pseudo-SGML end tag. Things of this nature have been floating around since at least the 00s and probably 90s.

Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#369

Years ago, I got a speeding ticket. I worked nights at the time, and the office to make the payment at had very strange hours because it was from a tiny town. My schedule made it difficult to make it over to the office during open hours, and one of the times I tried it was closed randomly over lunch because again, small town. (I learned later there was only one person who ran the whole office.) A day after my speedin…

You cannot pay your tickets by wiring the money?

Our most recent two tickets were from speed cameras. In both cases we sent in checks.

Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So your grand solution is to... steal people's stuff? Frankly, it sounds like you've never really researched or grappled with this particular social issue. Or participated in it.

You have no right to possess drugs. They are illegal. If you are arrested, do you get your drugs back when you're bonded out or even if the DA drops the charges against you? If not, how is this actually any different? Frankly, it sounds like you think this phenomenon is so unique that only a particular expert class is allowed to have opinions on it; and you're making wild guesses as to my experience in order to disco…

"You have no right to possess drugs"

That's the entire problem right there. It's also mostly untrue - with very few exceptions there are legal ways to possess an use lots of drugs, including cocaine for example. But drug possession should never be a crime. It is a wildly illiberal approach.

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