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A Phoenix record store owner set the audiophile world on fire

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Re: A Phoenix record store owner set the audiophile world on fire

#361

Post by Sporktacular »

bayindirh wrote: post #201
Sporktacular wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"When the CD version of the album you have bought has subpar audio quality" Yes, but these mastering choices could apply to the vinyl version too. In other words, your response had nothing to do with a comparison of the two media.

Nope, you can't apply the same mastering to the vinyl, esp. the latest stonewalling compression/normalization techniques because of RIAA equalization [0]. Without RIAA equalization, it's not possible to keep the needle in the groove with that amount of bass and low end. You can't keep the needle on the track with stonewalling even with RIAA equalization. As a result, you are limited by the medium itself, hence you ha…

Obviously the mastering differs. So your point is that the mandatory mastering limitations specific to each medium should be factored into comparisons between media?

Perhaps, but what about optional mastering choices like brick-wall limiting with normalization (which is what I think you meant)? Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point.

Re: A Phoenix record store owner set the audiophile world on fire

#362

Post by Sporktacular »

netr0ute wrote: post #194
Sporktacular wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"When the CD version of the album you have bought has subpar audio quality" Yes, but these mastering choices could apply to the vinyl version too. In other words, your response had nothing to do with a comparison of the two media.

> could apply to the vinyl version too They can't, because these choices create enough volume for the needle to go haywire, so mastering always has a better dynamic range.

Again, mastering choices differ between distribution media, that's obvious.

When you say 'mastering always has a better dynamic range', did you mean CD quality PCM has a better dynamic range?

Re: A Phoenix record store owner set the audiophile world on fire

#363

Post by Sporktacular »

dusted wrote: post #350
CamperBob2 wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But, perfectly recording and reproducing anything is still not possible, not in audio, not in video. Which is an argument in favor of getting the signal into the digital domain as early as possible and maintaining it there for as long as possible. The audiophile's stereotypical myth of analog supremacy is the assumption that the opposite is somehow true. Weird, but everybody needs a hobby.

I agree. I was not arguing against digital storage. Only against the sentiment that "just do digital and all problems are solved".. well, the storage, transport and editing is solved.. The analog problems are not solved, nor solvable, only optimizeable to a degree where further optimization becomes irrelevant, microphones/ADCs/DACs/Amplifiers/Speakers still have analog components that are inherently imperfect.

And that doesn't even consider the effects of jitter of the word clock that cannot exist if everything stays in the analog domain.

There are costs associated with digital that, like with analog, must be managed.

Re: A Phoenix record store owner set the audiophile world on fire

#364

Post by Sporktacular »

NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #233
Sporktacular wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are not understanding his point. Linear PCM systems encode quiet parts of music with a lower signal to noise level than louder parts. So by over-engineering the bit depth, you keep the quantisation noise further from perceptibility than without it. I think everyone gets sampling theory by now, your response was to an audio engineer.

But with typical production flow for a CD, you don't really have any classic quantization noise because you dither (probably with noise shaping) during downsampling to 16 bit; the effect is a perceptually-weighted 120dB dynamic range. It doesn't matter that the poster is an audio engineer: there is simply no good science or objective evidence that people can hear the difference between well-recorded music played back…

It does matter in the sense you are referring to basic sampling theory that anyone with 30 minutes to spare could learn, but quoting that to someone who's job literally depends on understanding it. You can assume he gets it and is making a point with that in mind.

Re: A Phoenix record store owner set the audiophile world on fire

#365

Post by JJMcJ »

gerdesj wrote: post #177
JJMcJ wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember when CDs were very very new the first review of them in an audiophile magazine a friend subscribed to. The reviewer was quite unhappy. The next month he reviewed a different player. He basically retracted his opinion of CDs but said the player from the previous month was obviously terrible, at least the particular one that he did his review on, if not the entire brand. And for audiophiles themselves, I not…

"I notice many of them seem to have very poor taste in music." Great response and critique until that point. I'm old (52) enough to have seen quite a few media changes too. I recall that when you were off your tits at a party, and discussing music, you tried to find common ground. That could lead to some impressive contortions! Can't say I ever spent much on playback hardware. I generally went second hand for speaker…

The term "audiophile" describes someone who indeed spends huge amounts on their audio setup.

It is different than someone who appreciates music, which it seems like you do.

Re: A Phoenix record store owner set the audiophile world on fire

#366

Post by drewzero1 »

Animats wrote: post #261
drewzero1 wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love records (78s and vinyl) for the tactile and visual experience-- and the fact that I can get something for a few bucks at the thrift store and not feel too bad about my toddler ruining it trying to put the needle on. To that end I have stuck to cheap, sturdy, school-grade equipment and mostly secondhand records. It's so fascinating to me that an inert physical disc is engraved with sound waves that are reproduc…

in the case of the 78s without the need for anything electrical in between. For fully mechanically recorded records you have to go back to pre-1927 Edison Diamond Disks. Or the real deal, Edison cylinders. Edison cylinders are actually rather good recordings. The mechanical playback system. with no amplifier, introduced most of the distortion. Modern playbacks, using a modern record pickup with a suitably large-sized…

I do have one of those Edison diamond disks in my collection, though no playback device that can handle the vertical signal in the groove. My ~1917 Silvertone phonograph does fine for me with the more conventional 78s.

My grandpa used to tell me that they donated the clockwork out of their record player as scrap metal for the war effort, so they listened to music by spinning the records by hand and holding a fingernail in the groove. That's something you can't do with pretty much any other recorded medium, aside from print.

Re: A Phoenix record store owner set the audiophile world on fire

#367

Post by brigandish »

crtasm wrote: post #333
brigandish wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For instance, it's not hard at all to make bass so loud that it causes the needle to leap out of the track I was a drum and bass dj when it was all still vinyl. Even in a club with huge speakers, I've never seen the needle jump due to the bass (although some places used to tape a penny to the top of the headshelf). The weighting on the tone arms can be adjusted so if you've got a needle dancing around it's due to y…

They're not referring to amplified sound. If you press a record with too much bass on it the 'wobble' of the groove itself can end up so extreme it'll make the needle jump out - no speakers required.

There's an awful lot of bass on drum and bass records and yet I've never seen a needle jumping because of it.
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