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Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

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Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#361

Post by LBJsPNS »

zeroonetwothree wrote: post #164
willyt wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A union is just a way to make a multilateral contract negotiation between one huge party and hundreds of thousands of very small parties into a bi-lateral contract negotiation between two equals, it’s a completely rational negotiating tactic in a pure capitalist system and it can only be prevented by restricting basic human rights to freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of contract and the right to live wi…

I agree completely as long as we also don’t start using state police power to enforce closed shops.

You truly know zero about labor history, don't you. Either that or you're an incredibly nasty troll. State police power has historically and to this day been used to enforce the power of capital against labor and unions, not to "enforce closed shops." Give me a break.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#362

Post by lovingCranberry »

abirch wrote: post #170
tarr11 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also means Amazon increases spending on automation. https://techcrunch.com/2022/06/22/amazon-debuts-a-fully-auto...

I was wondering how far away are they from fully automating the process? I always see their new robots.

A very long way.

I wrote this comment earlier today, but didn't post it. Now I do, and added some stuff at the end to hint the answer to your question:

I worked for amazon logistics some time ago and the lack of future vision and aim for automating everything™ was the biggest reason for why I quit.

I wish amazon would invest more into automation, but at the moment humans are just so much cheaper that you’d rather hire 500-2000 people for a few months peak (prime day and holiday season), than invest in automation.

Actually, amazon itself does zero to none research and engineering in logistics by themselves. Instead, they only buy third party solutions (Opex) or the whole company (Kiva - now amazon robotics). And Kiva is only working on the six wheeler, Robin (arm) and Pegasus. What does this mean? Well, amazon has more than one warehouse type: they have the fullfillment centers, where the six wheelers are used, but they also have IXDs (inbound cross dock), where EVERY product, which comes from the vendor and will be sold via fullfillment centers will go through. These IXD facilities have almost no automation, at least the ones which I visited (UK, DE, ES).

People are counting hundreds of shirt buttons by hand.

People are bubble wrapping hoes for gardening by hand.

People are bagging clothes by hand.

People are repackaging STANDARD SIZE cans (food and drinks) into boxes by hand.

People are palletizing STANDARDIZED CONTAINERS BY HAND(!)

People are putting a single scissor into a tote, because the computer told them so. Why? Because someone entered wrong dimensions BY HAND. (You could easily get the dimensions by scanning. Even taking a picture would be sufficient to get the correct dimensions into the system). [1]

Kiva's projects don't solve a single problem regarding: Palletizing, receiving items, sorting items in the RECEIVING part of IXD, labelling items, bubble wrapping items, bagging items, repackaging items into new boxes (literally putting item from container A into container B). What made me sad is that amazon didn't even try to solve these issues. They just act like these problems don't exist and always show the nice fullfillment centers where you pick and stove.

To end my rant: Amazon was the worst company I ever worked for. Insanely slow, very inefficient and way too much nepotism. They lack the actual will and hunger for improvement. My main goal when I applied to amazon was to make an "all lights out warehouse". What I got instead was an enterprise which is rotten on the inside.

But hey, there were still a lot of brillant people, especially my manager (kudos to him!). Also, the engineers who worked for AWS were always very friendly and problem oriented (only had very little contact during outages though).

[1] A tote is one of those yellow boxes: https://media.wired.com/photos/593256d2edfced5820d0fb9d/mast...

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#363

Post by danaris »

SoftTalker wrote: post #333
danaris wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only visible difference as a consumer is there are less (or no) automated checkout lanes. ...Really? That's a straight detriment in my book, as a customer. I would generally prefer to support a union shop, but I'm extremely fond of self-checkout—and, in fact, further upstate, Wegman's has introduced a self-scan app that you can use to tally up your total as you shop, and just scan a code at the self-checkout re…

> Wegman's has introduced a self-scan app that you can use to tally up your total as you shop, and just scan a code at the self-checkout register with your phone on the way out to pay. Kroger did that here a few years ago. They pushed it hard. Got very little uptake. It's still an option, but they aren't shoving it in your face when you walk in. There are just a handful of scanners on a rack by the entrance, and I've…

Wegman's hasn't been particularly pushing it, and it's not dependent on hardware scanners—it's an app for your phone, that just scans barcodes with the phone camera.

Works great.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#364

Post by danaris »

salawat wrote: post #268
danaris wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only visible difference as a consumer is there are less (or no) automated checkout lanes. ...Really? That's a straight detriment in my book, as a customer. I would generally prefer to support a union shop, but I'm extremely fond of self-checkout—and, in fact, further upstate, Wegman's has introduced a self-scan app that you can use to tally up your total as you shop, and just scan a code at the self-checkout re…

Does Wegman's pay you for providing them free labor? You're subsidizing them at your own cost with self-checkout. After all, you are: -Updating their inventory tracking system -engaging with the regulatory framework of purchasing on their behalf -being subject to their annoying "loss prevention hot days" where they turn the merchandise scales on. I've started to take a different view toward these jobs over time. Bein…

I could not care less that doing the scanning myself saves Wegman's money. It saves me mental energy and time because I don't need to deal with a human cashier, and I don't need to spend 10 minutes emptying a full cart, scanning every item, then packing them all back into bags and fitting those back into the cart.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#365

Post by sieabahlpark »

noisy_boy wrote: post #5

> The ALU may ask you to sign an authorization card or share a QR code to fill out an online authorization card. > This is a legally binding document Ooh scary ... is the employment contract signed by Amazon's employees not legally binding? How is it Amazon's business what their grown-ass employees can or cannot sign? > By signing a card or filling out an online authorization form, you are providing the ALU your pers…

No post body was provided.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#366

Post by birdyrooster »

nathanaldensr wrote: post #22
noisy_boy wrote: post #5

> The ALU may ask you to sign an authorization card or share a QR code to fill out an online authorization card. > This is a legally binding document Ooh scary ... is the employment contract signed by Amazon's employees not legally binding? How is it Amazon's business what their grown-ass employees can or cannot sign? > By signing a card or filling out an online authorization form, you are providing the ALU your pers…

"How can we make the mundane and expected sound eeeeeeevil and dangerous?"

No post body was provided.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#367

Post by TulliusCicero »

NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #259
TulliusCicero wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The social effects of this seem to be really good, if you look at quality of life in Switzerland. If wages at the bottom go up and that causes inflation, the overall impact of that is wage compression, or in other words, reduced income inequality. Which is what we want.

> reduced income inequality. Which is what we want. Reducing the PPP of rich people while only maintaining that of poorer people seems like a dubious policy outcome, at least in economic terms.

That's not how it works. The increase in income in the lower quintile outpaces inflation.

Well, it wouldn't outpace inflation right now, shit is crazy. But usually, yes.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#368

Post by SoftTalker »

danaris wrote: post #363
SoftTalker wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wegman's has introduced a self-scan app that you can use to tally up your total as you shop, and just scan a code at the self-checkout register with your phone on the way out to pay. Kroger did that here a few years ago. They pushed it hard. Got very little uptake. It's still an option, but they aren't shoving it in your face when you walk in. There are just a handful of scanners on a rack by the entrance, and I've…

Wegman's hasn't been particularly pushing it, and it's not dependent on hardware scanners—it's an app for your phone, that just scans barcodes with the phone camera. Works great.

My guess is that it reduces sales. If you can see a total dollar amount accumulating as you shop, you're more likely to stick to your budget, maybe select cheaper items or avoid impulse buys. If you don't know the total until you get to the checkout lane, you are more likely to just pay it rather than start setting some items out.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#369

Post by ekianjo »

somehnguy wrote: post #233
ekianjo wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. Who is asking for $100/hr at this level? Why not? If you can double every few years eventually you will get to 100 dollars. And if you claim that everyone needs to make decent wages, who is to define what "decent" is supposed to be? People will always be asking for more, never less. > 2. Maybe CEOs and executives don’t need to pay themselves such absurd salaries, that would probably help. Even if CEOs gave up th…

> Why not? If you can double every few years eventually you will get to 100 dollars. Huh? That isn’t reasonable at all and I don’t think you’re arguing in good faith because of it.

With inflation 100 dollars will become very reasonable soon enough.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#370

Post by Ar-Curunir »

TimeBearingDown wrote: post #284
kqr wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a problem with unions as a concept, but rather with the huge, centralised, bureaucratic, political entities they have become in practise. That type of organisation has some benefits, but I believe federations of highly local unions would be more effective for helping individual people deal with specific pickles.

It’s easily possible to argue that the concept or structure of unions, and their relationships to business, as generally implemented, tends towards those corruptions.

The same argument applies to the structure of capitalism.
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