Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers • Hacker News Board

Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#361

Post by motohagiography » Sat, Jul 09, 2022, 3:26 PM UTC

Just got back online a day later. Progress on side projects aside, the day was a write off.

In terms of causes, I think it was one of a few possibilities in order of percieved plausibility and likelihood:

1. newb engineer updated router configs using a CI pipeline that caused them to stop talking to each other.

2. standard mistake of redistributing iBGP with a bunch of static routes for load balancing into eBGP causing their internet facing ASN to announce the internet, and it took down their internal MPLS routes for backhauling their cellular traffic over IP.

3. geopolitical situation where someone was making a deniable example of their capability against a target who can't fight back. That was just a friday in Canada, it's just as easy to do D.C., Chicago, or New York.

4. a political stunt and pretext for "a safer internet" with "more oversight," orchestrated by party hacks, or an exercise to see how effectively they could do this. Least likely, but that's the level of trust there is in this govt right now. If you don't want conspiracy theories, try being credible enough people don't have to invent explanations because nobody believes you are in control.

I'd bet on 2 or 3. Items 1 and 4 are weak ideas, but 4 will likely exacerbate confirmation bias. What will likely not come out of this is liberalization of the telecoms market to add competition. However, regardless of teleological fallacies, I don't see this as a crisis that will be left to go to waste.

It has been a good fire drill for business continuity and preparedness anyway.

Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#362

Post by seizethegdgap » Sat, Jul 09, 2022, 3:36 PM UTC

FpUser wrote: post #260

skipants wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2. Rogers/Shaw/Bell/Telus immediately offer better terms for the residents of that building. I was about to write a whole comment about how I've never seen this myself and to disagree with you I was going to compare the price of Bell Fibre in my building to Beanfield. The latter of which I have at $50/mo at 1Gbps. But then I loaded up Bell's availability page and entered my address... it was almost like a sick joke…

I use 1Gbps symmetric Bell fiber small business package which includes static IP. Pay $129/month and generally happy. Static IP is important as I host some stuff right in my basement. You got me curious with this Beanfield. It is indeed $50 for 1Gbps symmetric (no static IP of course) but when I looked at their business package it is $300 for the same speed. Static IP is extra. I wonder what does such a big differenc…

You can use a Dynamic DNS service and a dynamic (residential) IP, unless downgrading to a dynamic IP incurs severe tradeoffs like CGNAT and/or blocking port 25.

Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#363

Post by cardiffspaceman » Sat, Jul 09, 2022, 4:35 PM UTC

voisin wrote: post #344

37 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see so many people get these two conflated, across the board, any time something like this happens. Some big leak or outage or whatever. The shocking part is not that they are giving no updates. Everyone is to expect that. The shocking part is that we (collectively) don't care that they give no updates, and let them get away with it.

What actionable steps can consumers perform?

The French People walk for less reason. (J/K they only walk for serious issues)

This outage is way too disruptive for polite exchanges of platitudes.

The public have to make their point of view high-key known. The public should respond so strongly that the other companies start saying things in public. Then the rich will get queasy and ask themselves, what do we have to do to buy back social peace?

Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#364

Post by djbebs » Sat, Jul 09, 2022, 4:58 PM UTC

amirkdv wrote: post #357

Alupis wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this not just competition working the way it's supposed to? ie, another player shows up in the market, offers a more attractive price and forces the other players to reduce their prices or shed customers. It's not like Bell, in this case, were offering 1Gbps for something absurdly below cost, like $1/mo or something just to drive the new comer out of business. Matching and lowering prices is good for everyone. The…

> forces the other players to reduce their prices or shed customers. Excpet they revert back to old prices once the competition is dead. This is textbook predatory pricing. > It's not like Bell, in this case, were offering 1Gbps for something absurdly below cost, like $1/mo or something just to drive the new comer out of business. What's the significance of "absurdly below cost" here? They are doing exactly what you…

No, its just basic supply and demand...

Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#365

Post by shkkmo » Sat, Jul 09, 2022, 5:56 PM UTC

djbebs wrote: post #364

amirkdv wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> forces the other players to reduce their prices or shed customers. Excpet they revert back to old prices once the competition is dead. This is textbook predatory pricing. > It's not like Bell, in this case, were offering 1Gbps for something absurdly below cost, like $1/mo or something just to drive the new comer out of business. What's the significance of "absurdly below cost" here? They are doing exactly what you…

No, its just basic supply and demand...

When you price good below your production costs and have most of the market, then that is considered anticompetitive, monopolist behavior and is illegal in many places.

This is because if a large enough company does this, they can lower their prices locally to below cost whenever a new company enters a local market and subsidize this with their other markets. This creates a stranglehold on the market that can allow a company to charge artificially high prices for sub-par services.

This isn't just theory there is a well established pattern here and that is why laws prohibit it in many places.

Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#366

Post by ehsankia » Sat, Jul 09, 2022, 5:58 PM UTC

goatcode wrote: post #133

ehsankia wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has any of the big cities ever considered its own municipal internet? I would vote for any politician that has that as a platform immediately.

You must know that it'd run on Rogers infrastructure though.

Not those kind, I'm wondering if any city has considered making their own infrastructure.

The Ebox and Teksavvy are great, but like you say it's hard to survive on other people's infra, that's why big cities need to make their own.

Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#367

Post by ezekiel11 » Sat, Jul 09, 2022, 6:07 PM UTC

acchow wrote: post #175

ezekiel11 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Canada is easier to immigrate to as a high-skilled person. False. > It's a great weigh-station for immigrants who want to eventually move to the US. Many do not, they move back home.

Many people who don't win the H-b lottery, or who do win the H1-b lottery but get turned down for an H1-b for other reasons, end up heading to Canada. Canada has a simple points-based residency system and it is very easy to get enough points if you have a bachelor degree and speak english fluently (already gets you a TON of points).

you realize there are many many affluent immigrants who do not participate in the labor market but pay taxes, invest, and otherwise provide liquidity for the locals holding real estate portfolios?

Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#368

Post by ezekiel11 » Sat, Jul 09, 2022, 6:08 PM UTC

brailsafe wrote: post #189

ezekiel11 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know many countries have problems but Canada is in a okay spot. Specific cities have looming crisis on their hands but this is largely the fault of provincial governance. Little of that I attribute to Canada as a hole, I just find BC in particular to be quite mediocre in terms of value compared to what you pay.

Why do you say that? I'm quite happy paying what I do renting in Vancouver. I usually find that people who actively want out of BC either desperately want to own property and can't, don't have any hobbies that suit the west coast, or can't make friends

No post body was provided.

Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#369

Post by ezekiel11 » Sat, Jul 09, 2022, 6:10 PM UTC

LegitShady wrote: post #180

ezekiel11 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know many countries have problems but Canada is in a okay spot. Specific cities have looming crisis on their hands but this is largely the fault of provincial governance. Little of that I attribute to Canada as a hole, I just find BC in particular to be quite mediocre in terms of value compared to what you pay.

with the massive property price increases that have taken place Canada has become even more mediocre than ever before. With the increases we've seen some movement out of Toronto and Vancouver areas into other areas of the country, driving up prices even more. Young people are basically out of luck in terms of hopes of ever owning property. I know multiple immigrants who are talking about returning to their previous c…

the thing is they blame immigrants but won't do anything against the real driver of housing unaffordability, the collusion of regulators and corporations offering large liquidity to housing market.

its breaking apart. the city of vancouver is broke and basic services are being scaled back.

theres also a large brain drain here. only idiots work for vancouver startups/companies that tries to gaslight you that sunshine tax is real.

Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#370

Post by Mikeb85 » Sat, Jul 09, 2022, 6:57 PM UTC

hackbinary wrote: post #114

jonahrd wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a US citizen, Canadian permanent resident. I think it has to do with the fact that historically much of Canada's lands/provinces were literally just land owned by very massive British crown corporations. Massive corporations are baked into the history of Canada as a political entity.

No. "Crown Land" in Canada is owned by the provinces. There is no such thing as a "British Crown Corporation." Crown Corporations are a Canadian thing. I lived in Canada for 30 years and now live in the Scotland. CalMac and Scottish Water are not "Crown Corporations," but are nevertheless owned and controlled by the Scottish Ministers. This is contrast to BC Ferries, ICBC, and BC Hydro which are Crown Corporations. I…

I think they're referring to the fact that the Hudson's Bay Company used to be the legal owner of vast swaths of what is now Canada before selling/surrendering the land to the Canadian government.