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The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

community.frame.work

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Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#361

Post by peatmoss »

quantumfissure wrote: post #117
chrisseaton wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is AMD so important to you? Are there any instruction set extensions these days that are only available on AMD? I can only think of things that are the other way around - only on Intel. And if you need something niche like some SIMD extension I guess you're running a server not a laptop?

Better power handling per performance ratio, at least when compared to previous Intel generations. Better integrated graphics, especially with the upcoming line, if what AMD says holds true. Non-toxic approach to business. Dr. Lisa Su has done incredible things with that company, and I'll happily support a group that recognizes the need for experience in top tech positions vs. MBAs/Lawyers/Fund Managers/etc...

Integrated graphics is a big deal. I was talking to a friend just this morning who has been waiting to buy a Framework until there is a gaming capable option. Intel integrated graphics isn't viable, but AMD integrated graphics meet a casual gaming bar.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#362

Post by smoldesu »

pizza234 wrote: post #150

Alder Lake is still not fully supported by Linux (improvements are coming with v5.18¹, which is not stable yet, and it will take a while to be released into several linux distros (at least the Ubuntu based)). It's a shame, because it would have been a great moment to offer an AMD alternative. ¹= https://www.tomshardware.com/uk/news/intel-thread-director-c...

Alder Lake works just fine on Linux, it's only Thread Director which is missing. Not that these machines would really even need it, the current CPU prioritization code seems to work surprisingly well.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#363

Post by csdvrx »

pedro2 wrote: post #173
deng wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the laptop support proper S3 sleep, or is this impossible with modern Intel CPUs?

I was under the impression it was largely a BIOS option. Basically if S0idle is advertised as supported, S3 isn't. On recent BIOS on Thinkpads this tends to be an option which can be toggled.

> On recent BIOS on Thinkpads this tends to be an option which can be toggled.

Just because the BIOS says so doesn't mean it will work.

On some old Dells, the S0 implementation in the BIOS was just so broken it straight couldn't work, even in Windows. What saved the game was Microsoft carefully considering such scenarios and checking the battery budget: if S0 was draining the battery too fast for the computer to awake in a usable state (like, with enough power to at least boot...) it would give up on S0 and go S4 "hibernate" instead.

In Linux this is now called Hybrid Sleep (S0+S4) but I don't think it existed back when I was in university. Finding a working ACPI S3 was hard.

On thinkpads, as explained above, a working S3 is just sheer luck as Intel 11th gen shouldn't even support S3. On the 12th gen, it sure doesn't. I would be curious to know if S3 works with Linux on a X1 nano Gen2 (12th gen)

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#364

Post by [deleted] »

nrp wrote: post #149
mssdvd wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the main reasons for not shipping to other EU / EEA countries?

Laptops are uniquely challenging in that each additional country has its own keyboard language, increasing the number of SKUs we need to manage and hold inventory for. This is beyond the normal challenges of entering new markets. We enumerated this in a blog post here: https://frame.work/blog/scaling-up-infrastructure We are continuing to build the infrastructure and keyboards to expand into more countries though!

[deleted]

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#365

Post by aaaaaaaaata »

freedomben wrote: post #312
nrp wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't do trade-ins, but we have released projects to enable re-use of old Mainboards: https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/Mainboard We're seeing some interesting outputs of that: https://github.com/brickbots/framedeck/ https://github.com/penk/MainboardTerminal

I know your roadmap is probably packed to the brim, but if you could help facilitate 3rd party sales that would be useful. My wife stepped on my framework 3 days (!!) after I finally got it back in the beginning, and you couldn't buy parts yet so I bought a whole new framework and cannibalized it for the screen. I've since repaired it but if there was a way to either trade or sell with other people in a similar boat,…

List it on Swappa.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#366

Post by avar »

mhitza wrote: post #216
dathinab wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is (my guess) Logistics is hard. Amazon might make it look easy but it really isn't (and Amazon is not available in all EU countries either!). Logistics is more then just shipping, but also returns, repairs, availability, shipping time, shipping costs, where and how to keep stock. And this points affect each other, i.e. they might not have enough supply to sell to the whole EU market etc. Lastly while the…

What do you mean by "Amazon is not available in all EU countries". Do you mean like a country specific TLD? Because that is true, but order and delivery is not a problem from any EU country as far as I know.

In my experience a significant part of Amazon's inventory isn't something they'll send outside of the "domain country", e.g. trying to send from .de or .uk (this was before Brexit) to .nl.

It just comes down to suppliers, who aren't serving customers outside of select markets for whatever reason.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#367

Post by aaaaaaaaata »

nrp wrote: post #78
Kerrick wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will all software shipped with the hardware when ordered with GNU/Linux be Free or will there be non-Free software such as the BIOS/UEFI? EDIT: I just realized that you cannot order this laptop with GNU/Linux pre installed. I was mistaken.

We've seen distro preference be too broad to make pre-loading efficient. Instead, we ship DIY Edition with no OS and publish guides for how to install and optimize the most popular distros. Our embedded controller firmware is open (see https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/EmbeddedController ), and we're working with some community members on attempting a coreboot port.

> we're working with some community members on attempting a coreboot port.

Commendable. Very cool.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#368

Post by jameshart »

Ohhhhh that's why there was a spate of projects posted last week about building computers based on framework mainboards - submarine marketing for this framework upgrade launch. Figured it was framework behind it somehow, but the fact that it's to promote the 'here are some ways to use your old mainboard once you upgrade' angle makes a ton of sense.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#369

Post by newaccount74 »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #233
cowtools wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

besides the fact that "retina display" is a marketing term invented by Apple, I don't really see what the big deal is. I have pretty good vision and I don't notice individual pixels on my 1080p screen. More pixels means more load on the GPU.

Same. I have an old school 2013 MBA and a fresh MBP for work and I don’t really notice the difference. Of course I can _see_ the difference. The MBP looks really nice. But when I sit down to code or watch a movie on the MBA, I have pretty much the same experience as I do on my work machine.

I use a setup with multiple screens, some of them Retina, some of them not (the lack of high resolution external displays is a pity...).

The difference in resolution is immediately obvious, but once I start working I forget that the displays have a different resolution.

Things like aspect ratio are much more important, and I think that 3:2 is the best aspect ratio for work. 16:9 and even 16:10 has always felt a bit cramped in the vertical, 3:2 feels perfect.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#370

Post by pedrocr »

csdvrx wrote: post #295
pedrocr wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, same here. And with increasing urgency as Thinkpad quality control seems to have fallen off a cliff. Framework seems uniquely positioned to fix this though. Someone just needs to do a compatible top cover that takes Thinkpad keyboards. I'd take a stupid one without touchpad at all as I just disable it anyway. That shouldn't be too hard, it's mostly getting the plastic right and adapting the connector to the moth…

> Yep, same here. And with increasing urgency as Thinkpad quality control seems to have fallen off a cliff. Not really, they are among the rare laptops to still offer S3 for Linux. And the X1 Fold is a technical marvel (working on Linux support right now, if I'm successful it may become my next toy device to try to use Linux on as a daily driver) > Framework seems uniquely positioned to fix this though. Someone just…

> Not really, they are among the rare laptops to still offer S3 for Linux.

The features are great but my complaint was about quality control. My T460s has had every single part but the chassis replaced, some multiple times, and still failed. A new T14s had to have the keyboard replaced because it randomly missed keystrokes. It then started having the screen randomly start flickering after resume. A new X1, top of the line 4K spec, has the internal screen randomly lose sync. The days of Thinkpads as dependable machines seem gone.

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