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Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

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Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#361
post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1200 is null as i understand i think 7200 is emergency? as a curious stem type who used to fly with other curious stem types back in the day, i remember asking for all the details and being given them. edit: 12xx is vfr no code assigned with various modifiers. 7700 declare emergency. 7600 radio out. 7500 mutiny.

1200 is VFR, which generally means “I’m flying visually and don’t need ATC help”. If you’re squawked 1200 you show up as VFR on their screen, but you still show up. That doesn’t mean null. 7500, 7600, and 7700 are used for various emergency purposes, with 7700 being the most common, and almost always accompanying a mayday or panpan. Those are transponder codes, not radio channels. It’s a code returned by your equipme…

never ceases to amaze: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transponder_codes

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#362

Video of the landing, it's very nicely done. https://twitter.com/aviationbrk/status/1524410837414391809

And that's not a little 172, that's a bit bigger! Nicely done indeed. I think the guy deserves an honorary set of wings for that.

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#363

Pilot here. I'm floored that a person with no flying experience could put this airplane down without a scratch. Air traffic controllers are not necessarily pilots, but luckily, this one was a pilot and certified instructor. ATC and passenger worked through a stressful situation to produce an amazing outcome. Bravo!

I'm not a pilot, but isn't this plane like the easiest to pilot and thus land for someone inexperienced? If this was a jet, the passenger in question would probably be pretty screwed?

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#364
post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Listening to the audio of the conversation, it doesn't seem like the passenger has no flying experience... At minimum they must have spent significant time around aviation or be ex-military. e: From another comment on Reddit > Examples: > The passenger knew what button to press on the yoke to transmit to ATC. > The passenger knew aviation phraseology and phonetics “333 Lima Delta”. > The passenger knew where the alti…

I reckon I could do most of those things except transmit to ATC and squawk. I suspect I could google the rest or call someone to tell me how to. If there's a manual up there, then maybe that will have info?

I feel like the only thing a manual would be good for would be distracting you from flying the plane just long enough to enter some position that you (as someone with no training) won't be able to recover it from.

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#365
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Video game experience is absolutely better than no experience. On small general aviation planes, the feature set is quite minimal and most simulators will replicate all of it faithfully enough, so the only remaining thing is the “feel” of the plane which you can hopefully experience a bit during flight before landing. In contrast, a big passenger jet has insane amounts of different systems that need to be configured…

I wonder about DCS "study sims" of combat jets. No, no, I'm not saying one could actually be a fighter pilot just by flying DCS F-18. But I wonder about the realism. It seems every single knob and button and thingy on the cockpit is clickable. Every subsystem is simulated. The manual is reportedly huge (I don't own it, just watched videos on YouTube). With such a realistic flightsim, TrackIR, a HOTAS setup, and all t…

I've been a fairly serious flight simmer for about 20 years now, including 13 years of DCS, and have flown the DCS F-18 since it's initial release 4 years ago. This topic gets discussed a fair bit within the flight sim community, and we mostly conclude that we'd likely get the F-18 into the air, but would most likely kill ourselves: either passing out from lack of tolerance and training to handle the G forces, lack of familiarity with the sensation of flight which can wreak havoc on your inner ear and result in vertigo, dizzyness, nausea, or paying attention to any of the hundreds of small details and checks that real pilots do that you don't do in DCS (is the OBOGS working properly? cabin pressurization working properly, icing, etc). Simulator pilots would also not likely be able to handle any inflight emergency or problem in the air. Then, assuming we didn't already kill ourselves during the flight, we'd at best damage the aircraft during the landing, or kill ourselves and destroy the aircraft at worst.

Still, DCS offers a tremendous value as a low cost training platform. The DCS A-10C module was built for the US Air National Guard to use as a training simulator platform to train A-10C pilots, and other countries and airforces are increasingly using DCS to train their pilots. A Spanish company built the Aviojet C-101 module for DCS because it is used in the Spanish airforce and they wanted to use DCS as a training platform. A Chinese company built the JF-17 module for DCS. An Italian company is currently building an MB-339 module for DCS.

You can search online and find images of Chinese fighter pilots using DCS for training. There are a ton of things you can train to in DCS very cost effectively - practicing communications, tactical formations, administrative tasks and procedures, weapon switchology, etc. It doesn't completely replace real flight training of course, but it sure can help countries and militiaries with limited budgets stretch their training budgets.

> I also wonder how come most of this isn't classified

All of the "good stuff" is very, very classified. Particularly electronic warfare, radar performance, modern beyond visible range tactics, modern weapons performance porifiles, nuclear weapons delivery profiles.

A lot of the "nuts and bolts stuff" and basic training materials is unclassified and readily available. If you read through and study all of these documents you'll be well on your way to being a fairly competent virtual fighter pilot: https://www.cnatra.navy.mil/pubs-pat-pubs.asp

Most of the topics discussed there are fairly "traditional" fighter pilot stuff that have been discussed by airforces for over a hundred years now, so aren't really secret, even though they're being flown in a modern jet trainer like the T-45.

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#366

Pilot here. I'm floored that a person with no flying experience could put this airplane down without a scratch. Air traffic controllers are not necessarily pilots, but luckily, this one was a pilot and certified instructor. ATC and passenger worked through a stressful situation to produce an amazing outcome. Bravo!

Listening to the audio of the conversation, it doesn't seem like the passenger has no flying experience... At minimum they must have spent significant time around aviation or be ex-military. e: From another comment on Reddit > Examples: > The passenger knew what button to press on the yoke to transmit to ATC. > The passenger knew aviation phraseology and phonetics “333 Lima Delta”. > The passenger knew where the alti…

None of these observations seem impossible for someone who is able to maintain low stress levels, think rationally and understand the overall general mechanics of how planes fly and what is important - altitude, speed, etc.

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Flying cars" made sense to me until I started flying. Now I think "driving airplanes" is the more appropriate phrase for what might be in the realm of possibility. For example: here's how you'd prepare to visit distant relatives with each vehicle: Car: load up however much weight you want, turn the keys and start driving. Low on gas? Just turn off at the next exit. Weather looks bad? Just drive slowly and carefully…

How much weight do you think it would realistically take to alter flight in a plane of this size? For instance, if both the pilot and passenger weighed e.g. 200lbs and sat toward the left of the plane, would that considerably (or perhaps even just perceptibly) impact flight? Same for some of the other variables, is there an appreciable different for things like magnetic variation? Wind, of course, seems reasonable -…

Not sure about the plane from the original post; it looks pretty hefty. And lateral weight is so close to the center of mass that it's unlikely to have much effect. What's more of a concern is having a bunch of weight far from the plane's center of mass, where the weight tries to lever the plane end over end, increasing the risk of a stall. I heard about a crash where the pilot's seat adjuster didn't lock, so when he took off his seat slid all the way back (just a few inches) but that was enough to cause a crash. Could theoretically happen to any size plane, but matters more with little light planes like those in general aviation.

I have no idea if "Spirit Airlines weight distribution issue" actually happened, but it's funny so I'll share: https://youtu.be/YvfYK0EEhK4

Magnetic variation in my area is +20° (west) off true north. So if I want to follow longitude line true north I need to fly such that the compass reads 20° NEN. And don't forget to account for the hunks of metal inside the airplane, which can affect the compass differently depending on your heading.

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#368

Pilot here. I'm floored that a person with no flying experience could put this airplane down without a scratch. Air traffic controllers are not necessarily pilots, but luckily, this one was a pilot and certified instructor. ATC and passenger worked through a stressful situation to produce an amazing outcome. Bravo!

Obama administration pushed Affirmative Action into ATC [0], lowering the scores required for "minorites". Candidates with maths and science background are actually being penalized to increase "diversity". 0 https://www.wsj.com/articles/affirmative-action-lands-in-the...

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Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#369

Pilot here. I'm floored that a person with no flying experience could put this airplane down without a scratch. Air traffic controllers are not necessarily pilots, but luckily, this one was a pilot and certified instructor. ATC and passenger worked through a stressful situation to produce an amazing outcome. Bravo!

Pilot student here. I’m not floored at all, for two reasons: my own experience, and selection bias. I once maintained level on a Cessna equivalent with zero training besides video games (I loved flight simulators back in the late 90s), and a tiny bit of model flying (I flew little and crashed a lot). Maintaining altitude wasn’t trivial, but maintaining level was dead easy. I’m sure I could have managed a very slight…

Passenger who got to hold the stick for a bit. Flying the plane is easy. Flying it roughly at some altitude in a rough direction you're given is also easy.

Now, landing it? That's an entirely different beast for sure.

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#370
post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a guy who made a forum bet he could land a Cessna 172 - first try - with nothing but MS Flight Simulator experience. Here: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/34/other-other-topics/pro... And outcome: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=35915547&p...

There's nothing magic about flying. At the end of the day it's relatively simple. The difficult part is being absolutely certain you're trained well enough to not crash the thing.

... and trained enough to handle any possible combination of inflight emergency, equipment failure, change of weather, safetly handle any last minute directive or change by ATC, etc.
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