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Why the WHO took two years to say Covid is airborne

nature.com

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Re: Why the WHO took two years to say Covid is airborne

#361

Post by fivea »

nradov wrote: post #353
fivea wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Masks in general provide very little protection. I recommend you listen to the explanations by infectious disease experts Dr. Monica Gandhi and Dr. Michael Osterholm. (...) It literally takes less than 5min in Google to realize your criticism is utter bullshit, and even come across statements by Dr Monica Gandhi complaining that her comments were misrepresented and distorted to come across as authoritative anti-mas…

Stop lying. I haven't posted any misinformation. You can literally listen to Dr. Gandhi's own words at the link I posted above. She spoke on the subject at some length, and answered several direct questions from a panel of other physicians.

> Stop lying. I haven't posted any misinformation. You can literally listen to Dr. Gandhi's own words at the link I posted above.

Again, google it up. You can't fake this one. You do not need to take my word for it. Just have a shred of honesty and stop cherry-picking stale and debunked myths.

Re: Why the WHO took two years to say Covid is airborne

#362

Post by fivea »

slibhb wrote: post #323
fivea wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People are adults. No, not really. Not all, at least. I vividly recall from the start of the very first lockdown, when the only people expected to be outside were those attending pressing matters like restocking provisions on supermarket, the local police caught a middle age man who was avoiding the lockdown by strolling around repeatedly with the same days-old loaf of bread under his arm. He didn't even bothered t…

You've sorted people who disagree with you into the category of "not adults". Should they be able to vote? The example you chose is funny because, in my view, it's utterly insane that we ever had lockdowns preventing people from "going for a stroll". That you think any reasonable person ("an adult," apparently) agrees with you just shows how far off the reservation you've wandered.

> You've sorted people who disagree with you into the category of "not adults". Should they be able to vote?

No, I'm the kind of person who is well aware that reaching adulthood is not a magic elixir that automatically grants everyone the ability to act responsibly or rationally, let alone a sense of common good.

Throwing adulthood around as if it implies everyone will do the right thing is blatantly unrealistic.

Re: Why the WHO took two years to say Covid is airborne

#363

Post by fivea »

nradov wrote: post #354
fivea wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People are adults. No, not really. Not all, at least. I vividly recall from the start of the very first lockdown, when the only people expected to be outside were those attending pressing matters like restocking provisions on supermarket, the local police caught a middle age man who was avoiding the lockdown by strolling around repeatedly with the same days-old loaf of bread under his arm. He didn't even bothered t…

There was never any valid justification for the police to harass a man going for a stroll. Real adults actively resist overbearing authoritarian governments instead of meekly submitting.

> There was never any valid justification for the police to harass a man going for a stroll.

Have you been living under a rock for the past two years?

There was a pandemic killing hundreds of people per day, and the only effective way to stop it from continue growing exponentially was to ensure everyone stayed put for a few days.

How is that "not a valid justification" ?

I mean, think about it for a second: law enforcement impose lockdowns on neighborhoods when a shooter is on the loose without any complain, and asking everyone to stay put to avoid hundreds being killed is not "a valid justification" ?

Re: Why the WHO took two years to say Covid is airborne

#364

Post by bcrl »

geysersam wrote: post #334
bcrl wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Misinformation is a problem and causes harm to society. Punishing people who knowingly spread misinformation despite having more accurate knowledge seems like a possible way of improving public discourse. It doesn't even need to be a massive penalty, a fine is probably sufficient in most cases to make someone think twice.

It's too difficult to define misinformation to use as a concept that restricts free speech. Just look at how much we've learnt about corona viruses these last two years. Many widely accepted truths today might have been considered misinformation early on in the pandemic.

Free speech doesn't mean free speech without consequences. If you slander someone, you open yourself up to being sued by that person. If you spread misinformation that provably harms society, I don't see why society can't sue you for the damage you cause.

Re: Why the WHO took two years to say Covid is airborne

#365

Post by geysersam »

yucky wrote: post #338
reducesuffering wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a technicality. People vote for Presidents by including the combo of them and their VP pick. The VP pick is known, even on the ballot, and understood to assume the President's role in case of emergency. So it's quite realistic to say we know full well we're voting for the package. I wouldn't extend this to the President's cabinet, as these people aren't known to us when voting.

>I wouldn't extend this to the President's cabinet, as these people aren't known to us when voting. Which is the bigger point, since that is who makes up the government. Not just the cabinet heads, but all of the undersecretaries and department heads etc. There are hundreds (or more) of appointed positions in the Executive Branch. People like Fauci have never been elected to anything so I don't see how the comment I…

Of course not everyone in the government apparatus are elected. The post I replied to explicitly refered to politicians.

But I also don't think public servants (Fauci etc) should be punished. Again, for what crime? They receive orders, in the form of laws, court decisions or executive orders from elected representatives. As long as they fulfill their duties implementing those orders they are not responsible for the consequences in the eyes of the law.

The elected representatives are however responsible for the laws and directives they make. And they do face that responsibility when they meet the voters. Ultimately the voters are responsible to elect sensible people.

Re: Why the WHO took two years to say Covid is airborne

#366

Post by makeitdouble »

dgellow wrote: post #294
makeitdouble wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking for France, we had a lot of flat out lies throughout the pandemic. The most obvious one was on masks and their lack of protection, hammered week after week by the gov spokesperson, until there was enough masks to be distributed. Then masks started to be pushed by the gov, people were encouraged to make their own, and we all know the story from there. There was no lack of information or evidence, and they pai…

Yes, I’m well aware of France situation, and yes your health minister was a joke with her posters in airports. Same for the Élysée spokeswoman who lied about not being able to use her mask. That was at the very beginning and was a complete disaster everywhere in Europe. Over time communication has been improved, governments have been quite transparent at communicating their decisions (relatively speaking). I don’t th…

> the past ~2years as “governments lying” because of a few mistakes in time of high uncertainty.

They had (have?) the same attitude regarding school and children, only about last year/year and half were lower grade school kids mandated to wear masks.

The two main contamination pools were work and school, and it was plain obvious to everyone that school had to be maintained for economic reasons, yet the edu minister never seemed to give up his “it’s all for the children” attitude while giving the finger to school staff requests.

French gov avoided the most critical mistakes, and reacted better than some other countries in a number ways, including changing its position over time and making radical decisions when shit hit the fan. But what a bunch of dicks they were! I can’t remember how many large scale demo they managed to trigger during a pandemic when most people were freaking out and somewhat trying to be safe.

Re: Why the WHO took two years to say Covid is airborne

#367

Post by benbruscella »

gilbetron wrote: post #329
joemazerino wrote: post #58

Michael Olsterhelm stated on the Joe Rogan podcast in Feb 2020 about the virus being airborne.

People on his podcast also said it was a hoax in that timeframe. Your statement is just illustrating survivor bias.

Interesting. Which episode mentioned COVID was a hoax?

Re: Why the WHO took two years to say Covid is airborne

#368

Post by slibhb »

fivea wrote: post #362
slibhb wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've sorted people who disagree with you into the category of "not adults". Should they be able to vote? The example you chose is funny because, in my view, it's utterly insane that we ever had lockdowns preventing people from "going for a stroll". That you think any reasonable person ("an adult," apparently) agrees with you just shows how far off the reservation you've wandered.

> You've sorted people who disagree with you into the category of "not adults". Should they be able to vote? No, I'm the kind of person who is well aware that reaching adulthood is not a magic elixir that automatically grants everyone the ability to act responsibly or rationally, let alone a sense of common good. Throwing adulthood around as if it implies everyone will do the right thing is blatantly unrealistic.

People disagree about things. It's not a good solution to put everyone who disagrees with you in the category of "child". It is, ironically, childish.

There was never any justification for banning people going for a walk. You've been seriously misled.

Re: Why the WHO took two years to say Covid is airborne

#369

Post by Clubber »

righttoolforjob wrote: post #322
Clubber wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Michael Jordan was a shitty basketball player. That's an opinion, am I lying?

Except you don't actually believe it, so it's a lie, not an opinion.

I didn't say it was my opinion, I said it was an opinion. The person may or may not believe it, you don't know. Is it a lie even if they believe it?

All people who are ______ are ______. Another opinion. Opinions can be intentionally or unintentionally deceiving, which makes them lies.

Re: Why the WHO took two years to say Covid is airborne

#370

Post by nradov »

fivea wrote: post #363
nradov wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was never any valid justification for the police to harass a man going for a stroll. Real adults actively resist overbearing authoritarian governments instead of meekly submitting.

> There was never any valid justification for the police to harass a man going for a stroll. Have you been living under a rock for the past two years? There was a pandemic killing hundreds of people per day, and the only effective way to stop it from continue growing exponentially was to ensure everyone stayed put for a few days. How is that "not a valid justification" ? I mean, think about it for a second: law enfor…

How many days is "a few" exactly? Do you mean two days? Two weeks?

There is no actual proof that forcing everyone to "stay put for a few days" actually saved any lives. Your comment is a complete non sequitur. And, hypothetically, even if it did save lives that is not valid justification for violating the fundamental human right of peaceful assembly. (And no, there is no human right to be protected from risks.)

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