I read a Murakami novel in high school, 1Q84. The protagonist is a math teacher who talked about math in a way that I had never seen before. I'd been told I was "good at math" beforehand(for whatever that means, I'm not a fields medalist or anything), but for ~6 months after reading that book, I was _really good_. Like, suddenly I did not have to do any homework in my sr. year calculus class. I loved sitting in class…
So you want to study mathematics
361–370 of 371 posts
Re: So you want to study mathematics
#362Earlier quoted context omitted.
My strong opinion as someone who majored in math is that, at least within the US, the standard calculus requirement should be replaced with statistics. So much more useful and so much more important as an adult. The analytical type of thinking that proof-writing is certainly useful, but you can make much the same argument of many other curricula, and besides, it's not like most intro calc courses even do any proofs.…
I'm really wary of this. House wiring would be more useful than Shakespeare. That's not to knock house wiring, or statistics. I'd love to know more about both. But don't deny yourself an understanding of the meaning of limits. Almost all mathematics before calculus leaves you with a misimpression that neat formulas exist to solve problems. In reality, you've learned to draw straight lines with a ruler, and maybe a fe…
I was a math major and didn't understand calc all that well until I took advanced calc, and I didn't understand statistics all that well until I took the upper-level mathematical stats courses.
Re: So you want to study mathematics
#363Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yep, I came here to say this. I think it is important that anyone who wants to study math understand that real math is not at all like what you learn in a physics or engineering department. In these departments you will always hear people say things like >"proofs are not useful, all you have to do is memorize the 'trick' they use. Once you know which trick to use, it is easy" or you will hear them say. >"Math isn't a…
For what it’s worth, the curriculum in this guide is modeled after the math major maps of many universities, including the one I attended (Penn). I would be curious to know what part of an undergraduate math curriculum will lead people very far astray…
though I am a little surprised that they have 1 course of differential equations in there instead of complex analysis as a required topic, as I think the latter is a better pure math topic. But it's MIT, so be it. Whether directly or indirectly, many of us learned to view math the MIT way by patiently working through foundational books like Artin and Munkres.
That said, my mention of non-introductory algebra topics probably is more of a personal idiosyncracy/interest.
Re: So you want to study mathematics
#364Earlier quoted context omitted.
You concisely illustrate my point. You misuse words so that others that have learned the material cannot understand what you're writing. Calling an m-tuple a coefficient and then calling the column span the "coefficient span" does not show understanding of the material. >I consider it a more fundamental, more useful concept than your "rank". The dimension of the span is the rank. It's exactly why rank is important. T…
> You misuse words so that others that have learned the material cannot understand what you're writing. > Calling an m-tuple a coefficient and then calling the column span the "coefficient span" does not show understanding of the material. So… I'm not wrong ; I just don't know the words? Sounds like I actually do understand the mathematical concepts. (Maybe I'd find the words easier if mathematicians named stuff sens…
Column space and row space are completely sensible.
>And that's because we have several different concepts to describe the same property, for no reason that I can see.
You do not see. If you think column space and row space are the same thing, then that's completely wrong. They have the same dimension, which is a theorem, but they are not the same space.
>But it is a coefficient,
So is everything, which is why calling this a coefficient, when there is a better word, is useless.
If you have columns m1, m2, m3, m4, and form the linear combination a1m1 + a2m2 +... Then the ai are also coefficients. And they're much more like what people call coefficients since they're scalars. If you want to call the mi the coefficients, what are you calling the ai? Numbers? Integers? Crawdads?
The mi are vectors, they are column vectors, linear combinations of them form a subspace, and the things multiplied by them to form the subspace are called coefficients.
So yes, you can call them coefficients, but you may as well call them numbers, or pointy-things, or anything else you make up, and no one will be able to talk with you, since you insist on doing things in a manner that makes your work unintellgible.
>Likewise, I don't think we should be using “row” and “column” to describe linear mappings. “We sometimes write numbers in a grid to represent the function” isn't fundamental.
... and you're off the deep end again. I'm glad you invented close but not correct linear algebra, that you missed so many important relations, that you use words in the manner you believe they should be, and on and on.
Of course, your methods clearly must be better than centuries of mathematicians - you should publish a book and clear it up for everyone.
>So why does every textbook
It's baffling to me how hard you push at simply learning. Pick up one of those textbooks I mentioned, and look at every page indexed to rank, and look at how it's used.
That you continue to debate this point is astounding and willful ignorance. I've given you why it's important. I've shown that in textbooks it indexed second only to dimension. I've given at least 5 places it shows up. I've explained how it's the dimension of extremely important items.
It becomes more and more important the deeper you go into math, and that is probably the biggest reason it is so important here. The concept of rank is the tip of an iceberg going through everything above linear algebra: Hilbert spaces, operator theory, exact sequences, homology, cohomology, topology, and on and on and on.
I'm done. You don't care to learn. You want to keep claiming your made up vocabulary and sloppy terms that miss important issues are superior. You're far too stubborn to educate. Go do it yourself.
Re: So you want to study mathematics
#365I'm still stuck at "wait, sets can contain other sets, and sets can contain themselves?" part of Russell's paradox, and I'm close to retirement! I don't want to study math. I want to know enough of it to solve some well-understood problems I've wanted to solve for decades. Simply learning how to diagonalize a matrix (and how to use such a thing) meant more than understanding a bunch of complicated matrix theory.
Re: So you want to study mathematics
#366Are there any "math for people who just want to use it" tracks in math pedagogy? I don't care a bit about proving any of it's true, or even reading others proofs of same. "Recognize which tool to apply, then apply tool", all focused on real-world use (so, yes, it wouldn't be "real" mathematics). That's the math education I'd like—try as I might, I just can't make myself care even a little about math for math's sake.…
> Are there any "math for people who just want to use it" tracks in math pedagogy? Use it for what ? That is the question. If you pursue the what , you will inevitably be exposed to genuine ways that mathematics may be employed by it. The academic standard for "learning math" is like "learning programming" by reading the C++ language/STL spec from front to back. No one productively learns programming that way, and ev…
Re: So you want to study mathematics
#367While I understand that the author has good intentions, I strongly disagree with the general idea of this post, which is that anyone can learn math through an almost entirely analysis-focused curriculum while other topics like topology, game theory, set theory, etc. are presented as advanced and graduate-level. This is practically equivalent to saying that anyone can learn history, and they should learn all about Bri…
Re: So you want to study mathematics
#368Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's just that it is very much a "mathematics for engineers" style course. I think very few of the subjects outlined there give you a flavor for what "real" mathematics is really all about at all (except for algebra, which you do mention). Apart from the applied stuff you mention, the real core of a mathematics education involves, I think, 4 main areas with significant overlap Group A: number theory, graph theory, co…
I suggest taking another look at the list and comparing it to the required courses of the undergraduate math majors at the top 20 universities in the USA. Real analysis, complex analysis, topology, and number theory are there (topology and number theory are both listed as electives since most math programs categorize them as such). Graph theory, functional analysis, differential geometry, probability, and statistics…
Re: So you want to study mathematics
#369Earlier quoted context omitted.
>> 1 hour exam I'm trying to remember when I had one of those last! I actually don't love the idea of cheat-sheets but maaaybe if it's a cumulative final I could see it being helpful? If you're taking chapter exams on some material, I think you ought to have worked enough problems so that formulas/constants are drilled into your head. But I guess too, where do you draw the line at engineering appendices? I sure don't…
Generally for stem test for application of material not memorization (Medicine you need both, etc). My lower level undergrad math courses all allowed us to bring a crib sheet with equations. It helps you go back over and study/relearn. In the graduate math / physics courses a crib sheet was provided and standardized. Memorizing final PDE solutions or things like Laplace Transform tables is no bueno.
Re: So you want to study mathematics
#370Earlier quoted context omitted.
> You misuse words so that others that have learned the material cannot understand what you're writing. > Calling an m-tuple a coefficient and then calling the column span the "coefficient span" does not show understanding of the material. So… I'm not wrong ; I just don't know the words? Sounds like I actually do understand the mathematical concepts. (Maybe I'd find the words easier if mathematicians named stuff sens…
>Maybe I'd find the words easier if mathematicians named stuff sensibly Column space and row space are completely sensible. >And that's because we have several different concepts to describe the same property, for no reason that I can see. You do not see. If you think column space and row space are the same thing, then that's completely wrong. They have the same dimension, which is a theorem, but they are not the sam…
You were the one who wrote column space = row space…?
> If you want to call the mi the coefficients, what are you calling the ai?
I'm calling them the coefficients because they're “part of the function” and don't change. They're the thing you'd naturally call a coefficient. Coefficient isn't as broad a term as you seem to think it is; In f(x) = x² + x + 3, the coefficients are 3, 1 and 1; not 1, x and x².
> You should publish a book and clear it up for everyone.
As soon as I have any actually original work, I plan to. But linear algebra isn't a specialism of mine, so I doubt I ever will.
And no, I don't think the terminology I've used here is an improvement over the status quo; I'm not a complete imbecile. I just don't get why terminology is considered more important than understanding in mathematics education, and why it's practically impossible to use different words for things even when you do have an improvement.)
> That you continue to debate this point is astounding and willful ignorance. I've given you why it's important. I've shown that in textbooks it indexed second only to dimension. I've given at least 5 places it shows up. I've explained how it's the dimension of extremely important items.
If you think any of those are counterarguments, you were never addressing what I was trying to say.
> You want to keep claiming your made up vocabulary and sloppy terms that miss important issues are superior.
Where did I claim this? I believe I said I was “not wrong” (a weaker label than “correct”), and I identified some problems I have with the existing terminology, but I don't think I ever said my (inconsistent, ad-hoc) terminology was better.