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MasterCard suspends all services in Russia

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Re: MasterCard suspends all services in Russia

#361

Post by Lascaille »

User23 wrote: post #353
Lascaille wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really weird how from my defence of peaceful protest you've totally pigeonholed me and are now diverging onto BLM and Jan 6. It's weird. >their own tribe This is the problem in your thinking. These 'tribes' you worry about aren't real. It's an artifact of twitter, of terrible reportage, of lazy journalism and muck-slinging that puts lots of different typs of people in one box because that makes it easy to pick o…

> And they're sick of journalists and twitterati calling them - and everyone else, for that matter - nazis because a few lunatics showed up to the protest with nazi flags and got kicked out. It's boring that the media keep falling for this shtick. Every single time. At least this time the provocateur remembered to iron out the creases on the flag he bought brand new for the occasion. It happens so frequently and so r…

>wonder if the media malfeasance is more than mere laziness

Of course it is. The modern media is absurdly woke and out of touch with reality and pretty much without principle either.

The trucker convoy was a perfect example of a modern working-class struggle and the media lined up to portray them as anything but.

I remember literally reading in some op-ed words along the lines of 'the truckers are not the working class, they are the modern bourgeoise; they do not work with their hands but merely direct from padded comfort the toil of their mechanical slave.'

It would be funny if it didn't actually affect things.

Re: MasterCard suspends all services in Russia

#362

Post by npteljes »

xdennis wrote: post #211
postsantum wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't work this way. For decades, media had been talking about how the collective West hates russian people and want Russia go down in flames. Now everybody sees it's true. I predict Putin's rating will be sky high in the upcoming months

If they stopped invading everyone nobody would hate them.

That's not true. People pick on others for a myriad of reasons.

Re: MasterCard suspends all services in Russia

#363

Post by npteljes »

331c8c71 wrote: post #216
postsantum wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't work this way. For decades, media had been talking about how the collective West hates russian people and want Russia go down in flames. Now everybody sees it's true. I predict Putin's rating will be sky high in the upcoming months

can confirm and dont understand why this is downvoted

Ignorance of other cultures would be my guess.

Re: MasterCard suspends all services in Russia

#364

Post by daxuak »

lostmsu wrote: post #254
daxuak wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclaimer I'm not Russian but watching the roll out of the war, I am again fascinated by westerner's imagination of that an inidividual could achieve in a oppressive regime. People literally get arrested by holding a blank paper as a one-man demonstration on the street. People lose source of income and housing semi-permanently because of speaking out anything against the propaganda. The secret police can force mothe…

That's an instance of the prisoner's dilemma though. They can't really arrest every single person who is against the war. They can't even arrest 1% of population - detention system can't handle that.

Let me rephrase it for you: sure, even if it's "only" 30% of the population VS the government, the regime is fucked. However, the dilema is that they _will_ arrest some percentage, so, are you willing to be in that bucket, having no idea of whether the protest will turn out to be anything? If you don't, how can you ask (a very large number of) other people to make up their mind and get fucked in your favor? People and crowds do not act as a hivemind. Humans are not built for this.

Re: MasterCard suspends all services in Russia

#365

Post by achikin »

sofixa wrote: post #103
nickysielicki wrote: post #49

It's hard for me to imagine a scenario where these sanctions (not just Mastercard and Visa, but all of it as a whole) are reduced without a total regime change in Russia. This is becoming a massive divestment, and I'm not sure it's a great idea. There's no guarantee that what replaces Putin is going to be more Western and not reactionary. For every Russian that is cosmopolitan and globalist, there's a dozen Russians…

> Hot take: I think this is going to backfire and we're going to see destabilization in Europe and America before Putin is ousted That's probable, but it's not "backfiring". It's a risk taken in order to stand up to a war criminal. He got away with it lightly last times ( Georgia, Crimea), a line had to be drawn, finally, or he'd simply never stop. Most Europeans are aware of the risks, and many support taking them n…

As stable as Venezuela and North Korea. Isolation does not help to ruin such regimes it’s vica versa - the more you isolate the people inside - the more support the regime gains. E.g. you can make high skilled professionals work for food because they have no other options and produce enough value to go on.

Re: MasterCard suspends all services in Russia

#366

Post by daxuak »

koonsolo wrote: post #320
daxuak wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclaimer I'm not Russian but watching the roll out of the war, I am again fascinated by westerner's imagination of that an inidividual could achieve in a oppressive regime. People literally get arrested by holding a blank paper as a one-man demonstration on the street. People lose source of income and housing semi-permanently because of speaking out anything against the propaganda. The secret police can force mothe…

So you suggest we keep the economy of Russia going? That way the common Russians don't feel any consequences. Too bad we will all still fund the bombs that are dropping on Ukrainian houses and apartments. Ukrainians can also end a lot of suffering by just agreeing with what Russia is requesting. It seems they decided not to.

You're suggesting that common Russians feeling "consequences" will change the war and I would like to disagree. They can do next to nothing, with a high stake. Most of the sanctions, especially the ones that certainly would not affect oligarchs or government personels, are purely psyops and a political gesture of the west.

Re: MasterCard suspends all services in Russia

#367

Post by daxuak »

koonsolo wrote: post #322
tsol wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's especially funny because when pressed on war crimes committed by their governments with their tax dollars, they will day "well listen it's not my fault our army did that, I'm not in charge! There's nothing I can do to stop our (democratically elected) leaders". But then they'll turn around and insist people in a dictatorship should be able to oust their dictator. I'm totally against Russia, but it's insane to me…

Russians have a shared responsibility. If my country would do something like that, I would also feel responsible.

Let's say you feel responsible. I believe a lot of Russians feel awful to their stomach, too. What now? Are you willing to risk your job, housing, wellbeing and the wellbeing of your families to protest, knowing that protesting will not change anything at all? IIRC in this round the Russian government are drafting the people who were arrested in the anti-war protests.

Re: MasterCard suspends all services in Russia

#368

Post by koonsolo »

daxuak wrote: post #367
koonsolo wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russians have a shared responsibility. If my country would do something like that, I would also feel responsible.

Let's say you feel responsible. I believe a lot of Russians feel awful to their stomach, too. What now? Are you willing to risk your job, housing, wellbeing and the wellbeing of your families to protest, knowing that protesting will not change anything at all? IIRC in this round the Russian government are drafting the people who were arrested in the anti-war protests.

Why would they be able to arrest them? Have you ever seen riots where people throw rocks at the police? For 10 years in jail, you better make sure you give them a reason for 10 years.

When you see those Russian protesters, they are all so compliant it blows my mind.

Throw rocks and get the fuck out. It ain't a crime if you don't get caught.

Re: MasterCard suspends all services in Russia

#369

Post by lostmsu »

daxuak wrote: post #364
lostmsu wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an instance of the prisoner's dilemma though. They can't really arrest every single person who is against the war. They can't even arrest 1% of population - detention system can't handle that.

Let me rephrase it for you: sure, even if it's "only" 30% of the population VS the government, the regime is fucked. However, the dilema is that they _will_ arrest some percentage, so, are you willing to be in that bucket, having no idea of whether the protest will turn out to be anything? If you don't, how can you ask (a very large number of) other people to make up their mind and get fucked in your favor? People an…

I was in that 30% before leaving Russia permanently in 2012. Them others not joining for various reasons is the reason we are in that fucked situation in the first place. I have a word or two to say about inaction, and how it is an excuse.

The writing about authoritarianism has already been on the wall by 2010. The anti-ukranian fascism turned out to be a surprise though.

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