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Locked out of 'God Mode', runners are hacking their treadmills

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Re: Locked out of 'God Mode', runners are hacking their treadmills

#361

Post by simion314 »

alex_smart wrote: post #352
mensetmanusman wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Government should mandate the ability to downgrade the software to versions that were previously available on said hardware. I’ve had so many issues with Apple devices losing compatibility with obscure features on apps after updating iOS, I wish I could go back occasionally to accomplish some task, and then upgrade again when finished. The flexibility is valuable. For example, on the newest iPad Pro, iMovie is unusab…

>Government should mandate the ability to downgrade the software to versions that were previously available on said hardware. What about devices that are connected to the internet and need security patches? As a software engineer can you imagine supporting every version of your software you ever released? Sounds like a nighmare.

>As a software engineer can you imagine supporting every version of your software you ever released? Sounds like a nighmare.

This would teach us developers to do better. Like don't push random updates that break shit. If your product is not filled with security issues you should be able to backport a fix for that giant secuiry bug you found, you can ignore the crashes. Anyway this big companies can afford to pay you to backport some fixes . It is not like some volunteer is forced to backport fixes in his free time.

Re: Locked out of 'God Mode', runners are hacking their treadmills

#362

Post by matheusmoreira »

f1refly wrote: post #356
gorjusborg wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if you are intending to, but that only further illustrates how broken (in the favor of corporations) the current legal environment is. You are right in that there probably is a gotcha, you agreed clause in the text that is displayed after I have purchased the item. I also think the idea that is legally binding a farce. Imagine how popular buying things would be if people actually had to read those agreements…

It has to be displayed before you buy the item, and it is. If you don't read the contracts you sign you only have yourself to blame. You also wouldn't go to a car dealership, skip the contract, sign it and expect good things to happen.

Does it even matter if we read these contracts? No one's going to negotiate terms with the billion dollar company and only lawyers will have a full understanding of the implications of what's written in these things anyway. This last fact alone should be enough to invalidate any consent.

I mean, we're actually talking about "buying" games here. That's how insidious these things are. The few people who read this fine print will know that we're not really "buying" anything, we're being offered extremely limited licenses to the content. Can you blame consumers who fall prey to corporate deception? Marketing leads them to believe they're "buying" stuff. It's not really their fault when they become victims of corporate bullshit like remote content deletion. Nobody should have to consult lawyers before consuming.

Let's summarize all company contracts in an easy to understand manner:

1. We can do whatever we want.

2. You can do nothing we don't want.

3. We own everything.

4. We guarantee nothing.

5. You have no rights.

That does it. That's literally what all these little contracts boil down to. Every single time I read one it's just the above 5 points over and over in mind numbing legal language.

Re: Locked out of 'God Mode', runners are hacking their treadmills

#364

Post by rhn_mk1 »

omnimus wrote: post #57
gorjusborg wrote: post #17

This type of 'update' is one reason I tend to stay away from so-called 'smart' devices. If part of the product I've paid for is software, and the company can update it without customer consent at any time, then I can't rely on the product's features. Period. I experienced this myself on the PS4 version of Terraria. I bought a hard-copy of the game. I mastered the controls, and loved them. Terraria was updated one day…

It’s not that i dont agree but the Terraria example is a bit unfair. First this is issue of the platform. On other platforms you can choose version of the game. And second Terraria is example of probably one of the most supported games. The update you are talking about brings massive amount of content and updates completely for free 9 years!!! after release. Most companies would milk the product with third sequel and…

> brings massive amount of content and updates completely for free 9 years!!!

Which can be a bad thing. The Minecraft I played first and the Minecraft I played recently are two different games, and I don't like how overpacked with stuff the new version is.

Most game expansions - paid or not - follow the philosophy of "more of the same", rather than stopping somewhere between that and "less is more". Depending on the game, that can make it tedious.

Re: Locked out of 'God Mode', runners are hacking their treadmills

#365

Post by LordDragonfang »

vorpalhex wrote: post #176
newaccount74 wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And in two or three years, when that cloud service inevitably shuts down, you'll be stuck with a pot that doesn't heat water.

The app doesn't need the cloud for bluetooth usage or basic wifi usage (though "out of your house" usage likely uses their relay service). You would no longer get "recipe of the week" stuff, but that is a small loss. The real danger is that eventually the app goes away due to not being maintained. Hopefully they release the API spec before then, but my specific device has already been reverse engineered at least.

It should be legally mandated to release either the firmware source, or at least the API and applicable keys, before discontinuing support for a device.

I'm reminded of the Wemo netcams my parents owned, which updated to remove a previous ability connect directly to the video stream in favor of pay-only cloud software, and the proceeded to cease support for that, leaving my parents with two completely useless bricks.

https://www.belkin.com/us/support-article?articleNum=316642

Re: Locked out of 'God Mode', runners are hacking their treadmills

#366

Post by pydave »

gorjusborg wrote: post #198
omnimus wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not that i dont agree but the Terraria example is a bit unfair. First this is issue of the platform. On other platforms you can choose version of the game. And second Terraria is example of probably one of the most supported games. The update you are talking about brings massive amount of content and updates completely for free 9 years!!! after release. Most companies would milk the product with third sequel and…

I'm not trying to pick on Terraria, but I think it's a great example for the reasons you are bringing up. Even with the 'value add' of the update, I no longer play the game. Why? Because I invested in learning and mastering the game as it was when I bought it. The forced update removed all value for me , and I'm the one who made the decision to buy it. If the product is changed significantly after purchase without my…

The update isn't forced, you have automatic updates enabled on your ps4.

Disable (Uncheck) automatic updates from [Settings] > [System] > [Automatic Downloads]

You'll have to uninstall the game and reinstall it from your hard copy to get the original version of the game you remember.

However, if you'd bought the digital version, you'd be out of luck.

Re: Locked out of 'God Mode', runners are hacking their treadmills

#367

Post by musikele »

When I read these articles, where people buy 4000$ treadmills only to watch netflix using an unsupported feature, I wonder why they don't buy a 1000$ treadmill without any display, a 50$ tablet stand, and an iPad or Android tablet (that they probably already have). You'd get exactly what you want, for a cheaper price..

Re: Locked out of 'God Mode', runners are hacking their treadmills

#368

Post by wruza »

tzs wrote: post #246
mcherm wrote: post #66

My solution to this problem would be legislation that allows customers, if they wish to, to return devices for a full refund if the company that manufactures the device makes a change that removes functionality that the customer valued. This doesn't prevent the company from making the change, it simply makes sure that they incur a cost for doing so, and it makes whole any customer affected by the change.

What counts as functionality? For example suppose the UI of a treadmill has a "Last 5 workout programs used" section on the front page of the UI to allow the user to select with one tap a recent program. An update replace that with a "recents..." button which takes you to a new screen that shows the last 10 programs used. Is no longer providing one tap access to the most recent 5 programs removal of functionality? Or…

After a few updates the UI is probably going to be a total mess

After a few messes the UI teams will figure out that you have to advertise and implement features in a way that doesn't interfere with user's habit. E.g. has a start screen where you may pin "last 5 workout programs", "recents...", any menu item, and a button to access other functions at top right.

Re: Locked out of 'God Mode', runners are hacking their treadmills

#369

Post by teh_infallible »

tharkun__ wrote: post #249
brokenmachine wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely. TV updates are another thing. They change things with abandon and you can't revoke the updates. Sometimes they break stuff and then you have to pray and wait until they hopefully fix them at their leisure. IMO, it should be illegal to issue unrevokable updates so you can't get a product to have identical features as it did at the time of purchase. You should always be able to wipe it back to stock. Same w…

That's exactly why I personally try to stay away from as many of these things/devices as I can reasonably do. TV: just don't buy an actual TV. Buy a monitor and hook it up to a Linux box with something like Kodi. You can hook up your cable box if you have that or stream from Netflix and such. Sure, even Netflix makes it hard as you can't get 5.1 surround but I'll take that and 2.0 -> 5.1 upmix over buying a Smart TV…

For TV, get a short throw projector. It’s a dumb screen, and it’s fun to play retro games projected on the wall

Re: Locked out of 'God Mode', runners are hacking their treadmills

#370

Post by amelius »

brokenmachine wrote: post #317
db48x wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The damages would probably only qualify for small–claims court. These cases don’t take much time to present or judge, and the evidence you need is quite straight forward. Consulting with a lawyer on the matter, if you wanted that extra assurance, wouldn’t cost much.

I was exaggerating a bit for effect. I consider my time for a day off work, travel to court, preparation, irritation, etc more than the value of the TV, and they probably wouldn't pay me damages for those things. The point is that I shouldn't have to do that as an individual for every purchase. We need a blanket rule that they can't remotely modify purchased items in a way that cannot be rolled-back by the consumer t…

Just buy the company-tethered stuff and return it. It's your right as a consumer, and one of the few ways to take action and make it hurt.
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