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Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)
361–370 of 600 posts
Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)
#362Earlier quoted context omitted.
If that were true, and you were willing to allow me the same level of freedom as you demand for yourself then surely my freedom to harm you trumps your well-being?
Your freedom to attack me physically? No, because you don't have to do anything not to attack me - you just don't. Your freedom not to get vaccinated? Evidently, since getting vaccinated is a medical procedure. I can't force you to go through it.
Freedom *noun* the power to act, think and speak as one wants.
I can physically attack you if I want to and in your very own words my freedom is infinitely more important than your health.
What is confusing you?
Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)
#363Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is no science if doubts aren’t allowed.
Slight change: There is no science if reasonable doubts aren't allowed. The thing with this pandemic is, that the time where you could have a reasonable doubt in the vaccines are over for a while now. We vaccinated half of earths population. If there would have been horrible side effects they would have shown. The more data we gather the clearer the picture becomes and the less reasonable certain doubts become. The t…
You need to justify the marginal benefit of force vaccinating young healthy people. That conversation never properly happened. First it was "that's not even being talked about, fuck off antivaxxer" then the next it was "are you kidding me we already decided this for you, fuck off antivaxxer". You can believe that vaccines are beneficial at preventing serious illness while doubting if they ought be required to a recovered young populous.
Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)
#364Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can't do a comparison like that because there are absolutely no 2 countries like each other and how they count cases is also different so that data does not exist. You can however look at what's happening in a single country despite the vaccination: Portugal, with close to 90% vaccination rate, is getting the highest rates of infection ever as we speak. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/portugal/…
This argument is scientifically (which you wanted) void: since you are not making a comparison with a low vaccination country, it does not make any sense. Try harder. I'll give you an example: Russia with relatively low vaccination rates has close to the highest number of excess deaths per capita. Portugal you mentioned is not even close. > are absolutely no 2 countries like each other fortunately there are like 200+…
> You just dismissed my first link based on an irrelevant claim that countries with high vaccination rates still have outbreaks (duh).
you mentioned the first step is hindered. Which is completely not proven by the fact that countries with high vaccination rates should effectively have a R trending towards zero if the vaccines even worked half as well as they should. Instead you see major outbreaks which completely contradicts the "hindrance" you refer to.
> From what I see you are the one not understanding science and ignoring facts here.
Ad-hominem attacks won't get you points here.
Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)
#365Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If a seatbelt doest stop you from dying in 100% of car crashes, I don't understand why they're mandatory? Interestingly, your comparison is relevant, but you are responding to an argument which I don't think is being made. The OP is _not_ arguing that vaccines shouldn't be mandatory because they aren't 100% effective. On the contrary, the OP's argument is that since vaccines are relatively effective, one person's c…
> […] one person's choice to not get vaccinated will not effect the others, and it should be up to them. But it will effect others: > But here’s the thing. A crankish libertarian – I count myself as one – might understand that seatbelts save lives, and still object to being required to wear one, on personal freedom grounds. That’s perhaps tenable when it comes to seatbelt laws, since the only life in peril from not w…
Right, I agree, to some extent it does. I was trying to give a better outline of the general form of @b3nji's argument, as @Ardon's objection seemed to be based on a misunderstanding.
There is a "pragmatic libertarian" argument too, which goes like this: The mandatory jab is much less costly to civil liberties than lockdowns, and if the virus is not quelled, the political support for lockdowns will only increase.
There is a whole bunch of issues and trade-offs involved. [1] People have strong feelings on this [2], and discussion is often reduced to partisan "rallying cries".
[1]: e.g. see my other comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29759089
[2]: Which is somewhat understandable, some of us have lost loved ones, lost jobs, been down the dumps, felt like being in "house arrest", couldn't even hit the gym, witnessed all the paltering by the media etc.
Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)
#366Earlier quoted context omitted.
The penalty in the case is irrelevant to the nature of the government's power. Also equating vaccines to apartheid is unrealistic and in poor taste.
No, it is very much relevant. And, systematic denial of employment, education, access to government services etc to a group based on a medical condition very much is apartheid. It is in poor taste to deny it, but I guess the apologists in South Africa were legalistically talking about “nature of the government’s power” too.
As it happens I am a naturalized South African - married to a black woman who had to endure apartheid.
I recited your argument to her and I am quoting her response in saying… “you are a f-ing idiot - I had no choice in being born black and I had no way of becoming white to avoid the consequences of apartheid. The unvaccinated have a choice - they are just choosing not to exercise it.”
You have falsely equated the two scenarios by abstracting away the thing which matters most: the choice to improve your situation.
Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)
#367Earlier quoted context omitted.
so tiring to see vaccinated people not understanding the science and the fact that they transmit the virus just as well. low information comments.
>> they transmit the virus just as well Then we do not have a vaccine, by the pre-vaccine definition of vaccine.
yeah, vaccine is marketing-speak. We should call these shots something else, because that's not what people typically understand by the word "vaccine". But that ship to fight on the name has sailed for a long time.
Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)
#368Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree with this comment and am fully vaccinated as well, and would like to just comment on the > (To be clear: I’m a fully vaccinated and boosted person that masks consistently.) Dear COVID scientogists, if you engage in a public discourse where your opponents have to write a disclaimer like this to prevent getting downvoted, you have failed at civic discourses and even if all vaccines were 100% effective and had 0…
I agreed with GP sentiment (and wrote a similar comment myself), but absolutely disagree with your sentiment. Being able, but unwilling, to get vaccinated substantially shifts my priors of where your comment is coming from. It is useful information, and I appreciate when people disclose it. If you replace vaccination with an analogous, more politically one-sided limit case (say [not being a Nazi]:[supporting a policy…
Your line of thinking is a typical ad hominem; you should evaluate an argumentation based on its merits, not what the meatball behind the online handle happens to do in his free time.
Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)
#369In other festive COVID news from Canada: >Canada's Justin Trudeau on the unvaccinated: >“They don’t believe in science/progress and are very often misogynistic and racist....This leads us, as a leader and as a country, to make a choice: Do we tolerate these people?" https://twitter.com/KevinBardosh/status/1476838517007257600 My patience with COVID cultists is starting to run quite thin.
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Virtually everyone I know voted for Biden, doesn't hate black people or women, and is tired of covid measures. The virus isn't going anywhere, we're all vaccinated, it's time to move on. Even if the 10-20% of the population that isn't vaccinated gets vaccinated it would not make the virus go away. There is a optimal amount of risk like there is an optimal amount of dirt in my home.
Trudeau's rhetoric is shocking. Biden would never stoop to that level nor would have Obama. It's "deplorables" all over again and in addition to being cruel it's poor politics.
Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)
#370Earlier quoted context omitted.
Overwhelmed ICUs and hospitals beg to differ that reducing transmission rate is useless. Reducing virulence is absolutely worthwhile even if eventually everyone will get infected at some point.
In fact the opposite is true. If everyone gets coronavirus in a two week period, ICU is less overwhelmed for the rest of the year. A lot of susceptible people die, of course. If you attempt to spread it out and succeed, you're at 100% capacity basically all of the time, plus 99% of people get to deal with the fact that coronavirus restrictions are utterly miserable. Omicron has probably made all of this irrelevant an…
I'm vaccinated and effectively boosted. I've been going out tons and not being careful at all. I kissed my girlfriend recently who had as it turns out Omicron at the time. I have yet to catch it.
"Everyone" is a significant stretch. Yeah its seriously contagious but you, an engineer, should know better than deal with such absolutes. Viruses burn out long before they infect everyone, even without vaccines and even if they're extremely contagious.