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President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

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Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#361

Post by analog31 »

Bayesian_bro wrote: post #215

This is just an example of the different ethics between China and America. America is very deontological in terms of FREEDOM. We love freedom above everything else. China is very consequentialist, they care about prosperity and success over everything else. I'm a pretty red blooded American (I drive a black smoke diesel truck and have enough firearms and ammo to make it pretty far in the apocalypse). I wonder what et…

>>> We can already see having consequentialist ethics that don't care about your freedom do a lot better at fighting pandemics.

The free world developed the vaccine, and virtually the entire R&D and manufacturing infrastructure that made vaccine development possible.

Also, response to the pandemic has been highly regional, suggesting that we don't have a single unifying "ethical system." There are also two polarized camps related to the presentation of information to the public, such as the effects of carbon dioxide, the results of elections, and so forth.

I wonder if there's a better example than the pandemic for supporting your hypothesis.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#362

Post by Delk »

IncRnd wrote: post #135
jaclaz wrote: post #83

Thanks. Only for the record, the message I get from EU: 451: Unavailable due to legal reasons We recognize you are attempting to access this website from a country belonging to the European Economic Area (EEA) including the EU which enforces the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) and therefore access cannot be granted at this time. For any issues, contact help@purdueexponent.org or call 765-743-1111. Maybe it…

People of the EU might want to seriously reconsider the GDPR after seeing its affects such as this.

I occasionally run into websites that deny access rather than complying with the GDPR, but that's fairly rare and happens perhaps a few times a year. Most sites I've seen have gone through the trouble of complying and implementing cookie consent controls instead.

The added legal complexity from the GDPR for small-time operations has made me skeptical at times, but geoblocking due to the GDPR seems surprisingly rare and not a reason for that skepticism at all. I'd frankly have expected it to be much more common than it's turned out to be.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#363

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

zepto wrote: post #295
geofft wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a large number of bills in US state legislatures aimed at suppressing honest and uncensored discussion of the Tulsa race massacre. In America, we should discuss and debate and try to incrementally learn from our experiences. And we do, a lot of the time. But not always.

> There are a large number of bills in US state legislatures aimed at suppressing honest and uncensored discussion of the Tulsa race massacre. Bullshit. There is not one.

Many isn't one so I guess you're right there https://duckduckgo.com/?q=legislature+bill+crt&t=h_&ia=web

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#364

Post by zepto »

guipsp wrote: post #332
throwawaylinux wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are a large number of bills in US state legislatures aimed at suppressing honest and uncensored discussion of the Tulsa race massacre. Which bills are those?

https://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/oklahoma-lawmaker-propo...

Some of what is in that bill is repugnant - the part about not teaching that one group was the victim and another the oppressor in slavery is totally absurd.

If you are claiming that bill is about the Tulsa race massacre, you either haven’t read it or are lying.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#365

Post by clavicat »

Bayesian_bro wrote: post #215

This is just an example of the different ethics between China and America. America is very deontological in terms of FREEDOM. We love freedom above everything else. China is very consequentialist, they care about prosperity and success over everything else. I'm a pretty red blooded American (I drive a black smoke diesel truck and have enough firearms and ammo to make it pretty far in the apocalypse). I wonder what et…

This is some asinine cultural analysis, as if entire cultures can be reduced to the embrace of moral philosophies. You could just have easily described China as harboring a deontological commitment to social harmony and deference to authority, or America as being consequentialist in its embrace of freedom as the approach most conducive to happiness and opposed to tyranny. Both are caricatures, of course.

A problem I’ve noticed with philosophy nerds is that they have a tendency to overemphasize the importance of their niche interest by hallucinating the influence of philosophical reasoning in human affairs and historical events. Most people in most times don’t think about this stuff at all. It’s completely irrelevant.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#366

Post by JumpCrisscross »

CapitalistCartr wrote: post #316
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> should be only one remedy: imediate expulsion of any agent of repression of the Chinese state There should be the same remedy that is provided to any other bully. These are still kids. There is a learning opportunity. If they refuse to learn, yes, expulsion should be in the cards.

This isn't some kids bullying another kid. These are adults representing a national government. This is a nation bullying someone inside the United States for exercising free speech. The message needs to be received in Beijing, not merely Indiana.

> adults representing a national government

Legally adults, perhaps, but I think we have a social consensus that most college students are kids. Their brains haven't fully developed. If they're coming out of a brainwashed environment, they may never have been explicitly told that this is wrong; they deserve a second chance.

> message needs to be received in Beijing, not merely Indiana

I agree. My vote would be for a new foreign-student visa ban on the children of CCP members until Beijing commits to quit being petulant. But hit Beijing, the people commanding spooks to harass the parents of a student in a different country telling historical stories that scare them.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#367

Post by naruvimama »

Bayesian_bro wrote: post #215

This is just an example of the different ethics between China and America. America is very deontological in terms of FREEDOM. We love freedom above everything else. China is very consequentialist, they care about prosperity and success over everything else. I'm a pretty red blooded American (I drive a black smoke diesel truck and have enough firearms and ammo to make it pretty far in the apocalypse). I wonder what et…

One reason could be that Americans are traumatised by the total control by the church for almost 2 millennia, save for the last century perhaps.

Even today every President takes oath at a church because without the Shepard's blessings it would be impossible to get the sheep's votes.

As much as I dislike the CCP, I would like to see Americans ask their churches to come clean on their past and present activities. And there is some true separation between the church and state.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#368

Post by nyokodo »

Bayesian_bro wrote: post #215

This is just an example of the different ethics between China and America. America is very deontological in terms of FREEDOM. We love freedom above everything else. China is very consequentialist, they care about prosperity and success over everything else. I'm a pretty red blooded American (I drive a black smoke diesel truck and have enough firearms and ammo to make it pretty far in the apocalypse). I wonder what et…

> We can already see having consequentialist ethics that don't care about your freedom do a lot better at fighting pandemics

We’ll see. Due to it’s Zero COVID strategy and ineffectual vaccines China has a highly immunonaive population just as the virus gets so infectious that other Zero COVID countries have abandoned that strategy. However, New Zealand, Singapore etc have the much better mRNA vaccines. I hope the terrible cost of losing their basic human rights was worth it for them, but I suspect the worst days of COVID are ahead for China.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#370

Post by hoppyhoppy2 »

zepto wrote: post #340
DFHippie wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In America, we discuss and debate and try to incrementally learn from our experience. Well, some do. The anti-CRT brouhaha is a reaction against that. Do you suppose they'll be teaching about the Tulsa Race Massacre in Oklahoma high schools in the near future? ETA I think people were taking me the wrong way. I added "anti-" above. The brouhaha is all the people trying to prevent their kids from hearing anything in…

CRT has nothing to do with teaching history.

The parent commenter was referring to "the CRT brouhaha" (how the broader issue is playing out in the real world, not just what the academic term "critical race theory" does or doesn't refer to). The brouhaha is affecting how history is taught in at least some places.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/01/us/texas-critical-race-theory...

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2021/07/02/why-are-sta...

https://time.com/6075193/critical-race-theory-debate/

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