Facebook employees are now more willing to leave, tech recruiters say • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook employees are now more willing to leave, tech recruiters say

#361

Post by 0xy » Mon, Nov 15, 2021, 8:55 AM UTC

exBarrelSpoiler wrote: post #283

throwaway_1114 wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked at a place that is discriminatory and has hostile attitudes against men - 1) a team I was previously on had two open headcount. I knew a friend of mine that would have been a perfect fit for the role. I suggested my friend and was told that they weren't considering men or non-diverse candidates. I'm a mixed Latino and was told this from a white man 2) a government grant was given to businesses impacted by co…

Probably because your story sounds dubious. Name and shame or forever hold your peace. You're posting from a throwaway account anyway.

I've participated in hiring at 3 billion-dollar tech companies. Nearly all of them I've seen happen, always under the cloak of wink wink nudge nudge.

Re: Facebook employees are now more willing to leave, tech recruiters say

#362

Post by coward123 » Mon, Nov 15, 2021, 8:58 AM UTC

smnscu wrote: post #247

bottle_roket wrote: post #229

I’m a FB employee and I’m giving my notice tomorrow. I interviewed with them in 2019 just so I could get a competing offer and had no intention of working there, but at the end of my interviewing run they were the only offer I had. It was 2x my current salary and it was too hard to turn it down when the money was right there in front of me. I had sincere moral issues with the company but I convinced myself their wors…

I've been doing Karat interviews for about three years and it's been incredible for my mental health. The work is extremely flexible and there is nothing to worry about when you're not working (I dread deadlines and I'm neurotic enough to never manage a good WLB at a regular SWE gig). The compensation is also pretty good. Apply on their website if interested ( https://karat.com/ ) or hit me up at my username at googl…

Karat represents everything wrong with how we interview in the tech industry. After being in tech for dozens of years and having interviewed and hired hundreds of people, an interview with Karat was one of the experiences that shook me to the core and told me It was time I retired. I’ve seldom felt so dehumanized.

Re: Facebook employees are now more willing to leave, tech recruiters say

#363

Post by m0zg » Mon, Nov 15, 2021, 9:19 AM UTC

Ozzie_osman wrote: post #281

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the inside perspective > Couple this with a culture that has masterminded a set of carrots and sticks that gets people to push themselves very hard all of the time, I’m completely burnt out. Can you say more about the work/life balance? I've heard Facebook's work life balance described as everything from a cushy "engineer retirement home" to a grueling crushing workload that few can handle. Obviously FB is…

I worked at a FAANG (not anymore), and my spouse and many of my friends still do. There are two ways to do FAANG (very generally). You can care about promotion, or you can not. If you do care, then it's competitive and stressful because perf reviews (and often politics) will determine your fate. If you just want to cruise and have a cushy job, you can do that too, but just accept that you either won't get promoted (o…

The correct way to do it, if you can, is, quite obviously, #2. The comp differential that comes from "career" isn't life changing, but the stress that comes with that comp differential is very real and damaging to your relationships IRL, your family, and yourself. And even if you coast, you'll still be paid better on income/effort basis as well as in absolute, compared to the vast majority of non-FANG companies.

As rational and verifiably correct as that strategy is, I can't do this myself though. I either care about the things I do, or I don't do them at all. I feel as though my age might solve this issue.

Re: Facebook employees are now more willing to leave, tech recruiters say

#364

Post by throwaway5371 » Mon, Nov 15, 2021, 9:26 AM UTC

Bud wrote: post #336

forgingahead wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Glad you are following your conscience. You'll return all the money / stock options you were issued when you give your notice right? For the (expected) downvoters, this is a legitimate question, because the easy thing is to quit after benefitting from something you eventually discover is "bad". Real moral principle comes from that extra step, usually of hardship, whereby you have the moral realisation and also penanc…

Real moral principle comes from giving the money you earned...back to Facebook? So that Facebook can be richer? Maybe think for five seconds before being an amateur moral philosopher in public, with other people's money, next time. You don't seem to be very good at it.

he can donate them to a charity dealing with children mental health issues

those developers consciously act against their fellow men. should they get to spend their blood money?

the op is asking serious question, its easy to steal some money and then say “oh i was wrong, i am not gonna steal anymore”

Re: Facebook employees are now more willing to leave, tech recruiters say

#365

Post by nprateem » Mon, Nov 15, 2021, 9:35 AM UTC

pm90 wrote: post #61

freewilly1040 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’ve certainly faced an onslaught from the press, which has decided they are Philip Morris 2.0. It’s very unclear if that is going to translate into actual legal trouble. If I was at FB I’d be more concerned with how young people are rejecting it.

Facebook presents an existential threat to the business of most traditional news media and they have a platform that actively promotes misinformation. The Press is doing their job: finding out what goes on inside Facebook and reporting on it. As someone not really involved either way, the responses of Facebook to legitimate questions has been entirely unsatisfactory and justifies the negative coverage they’ve receive…

I heard that Murdoch particularly hates FB & Google since he's lost so much ad money to them. As a result his papers have gone to great lengths to give Google/YT/FB, etc bad press to try to convince advertisers to advertise in traditional print newspapers like the good old days (for which they margins are far higher).

Re: Facebook employees are now more willing to leave, tech recruiters say

#366

Post by throwawayms3441 » Mon, Nov 15, 2021, 9:37 AM UTC

xenadu02 wrote: post #330

throwaway_1114 wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked at a place that is discriminatory and has hostile attitudes against men - 1) a team I was previously on had two open headcount. I knew a friend of mine that would have been a perfect fit for the role. I suggested my friend and was told that they weren't considering men or non-diverse candidates. I'm a mixed Latino and was told this from a white man 2) a government grant was given to businesses impacted by co…

I'm putting aside whether this telling is accurate, or whether this happened or not (given it is a throwaway). Just answering the questions about legality: 1: 100% illegal. Any FAANG manager has likely had to go through hiring training that stresses this point. 3: 100% illegal. 4: Might be illegal under Federal law if this is a blanket policy, definitely illegal under California law (most "equality"-type laws and pro…

I realize it's not helpful that I'm also posting as a throwaway (I unfortunately believe there's a chance being on the record opposing these programs could bite me in the future or really even now), but I hope it's a datapoint, to sister comment exbarrelspoiler as well.

My FAANG currently has 3 on the books in writing (it is called diversity slating), and has for periods of time ordered 1 verbally by vice presidents in certain organizations, that hiring is frozen but if a diversity candidate is found exceptions should be made.

You are correct with what the training stresses, my impression is that has little impact on the bigger picture that companies are shamed for not getting these numbers up so they turn every screw they can.

Re: Facebook employees are now more willing to leave, tech recruiters say

#367

Post by varispeed » Mon, Nov 15, 2021, 9:44 AM UTC

smnscu wrote: post #247

bottle_roket wrote: post #229

I’m a FB employee and I’m giving my notice tomorrow. I interviewed with them in 2019 just so I could get a competing offer and had no intention of working there, but at the end of my interviewing run they were the only offer I had. It was 2x my current salary and it was too hard to turn it down when the money was right there in front of me. I had sincere moral issues with the company but I convinced myself their wors…

I've been doing Karat interviews for about three years and it's been incredible for my mental health. The work is extremely flexible and there is nothing to worry about when you're not working (I dread deadlines and I'm neurotic enough to never manage a good WLB at a regular SWE gig). The compensation is also pretty good. Apply on their website if interested ( https://karat.com/ ) or hit me up at my username at googl…

"Build global technical talent acquisition operations"

Why they think this dehumanising language is okay? It reeks of modern slavery.

Re: Facebook employees are now more willing to leave, tech recruiters say

#368

Post by varispeed » Mon, Nov 15, 2021, 9:49 AM UTC

lmilcin wrote: post #237

rajup wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say "free choice" like companies are just throwing out job offers for free. They do not and you can find tons of posts on here complaining about how the interview process sucks, does not measure true capability etc, etc. Many people may just not have the time to grind Leetcode juggling a job to pay bills, kids and family. Sorry, but this "free choice" argument is bunk IMHO.

> You say "free choice" like companies are just throwing out job offers for free. Not for free, you still have to honestly work there. You get salary for value you provide. In general companies set up hiring processes with intention to hire people. (I know this sounds like a heresy to some ears here on HN). They interviews are set up with intention to hire people while but also filter out people who will not be produ…

> You get salary for value you provide.

Salaries are not tied to value, otherwise developers would be making 7-8 digits not 5-6. Salaries are determined by "market rate" which is a synonym for market fixing. It does not matter what value you provide, only matters how low you will agree to get paid.

Re: Facebook employees are now more willing to leave, tech recruiters say

#369

Post by zelos » Mon, Nov 15, 2021, 9:54 AM UTC

akomtu wrote: post #345

bottle_roket wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously it’s a huge company with thousands of teams, but I’ve been an engineer on 3 different product teams and certain things have been the same everywhere. I would say purely from a coding perspective the workload is typical ~40ish hours a week. The stress comes from the biannual performance reviews that grade you explicitly across 4 axis. If you got your projects delivered on time with high quality code that’s j…

Those extra axes seem easy to fake. Just "review" all code reviews you see - takes 5 sec per CR and your metrics skyrocket. Mission of the team? Write some bs docs with vision and ideas: nobody needs them, but you get to mark the checkbox. Team culture? Say you've organized a book reading club, even do a couple meetings - just bring a book there and mark the checkbox. Books don't actually need to be read. Want to sco…

Goodhart's law in effect.

I once had a job where a portion of our bonus was related to an automated code quality score. Needless to say, we reverse engineered the algorithm and scripted the (pointless, probably slightly harmful) changes to the source to maximise the score.

Re: Facebook employees are now more willing to leave, tech recruiters say

#370

Post by mellavora » Mon, Nov 15, 2021, 9:55 AM UTC

rhexs wrote: post #209

lovich wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought teachers spent much of the summer break maintaining certifications and incorporating new school regulations into their lesson plans for the next year. I don’t think it’s a 3 month break for them

Most teachers absolutely do get a 3 month break. They’ll have a few workshops at most.

my sister was a teacher for 20-odd years, then she went through a Ph.D. program in education theory, and now teaches teachers. So below is not based on "knowing one or two teachers", but on knowing how teachers are trained/certified and what professional standards are.

Most teachers work hard over the summer, it isn't a break. Pay isn't great.

And a certain mainstream political group puts significant effort into demonizing the profession and destroying the pay/benefits packages... which matters, because in public schools, the politicians hold the purse strings.