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.NET 6 Released

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Re: .NET 6 Released

#361

Post by DeathArrow »

oaiey wrote: post #188
rc_hackernews wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who programs with .NET in their day job...no probably, not. Outside of a few areas related to DDD, event sourcing, and some distributed-system frameworks (NServiceBus and MassTransit) there's really no killer app for .NET, in my opinion. The big selling point for .NET now is that it runs on Linux...which is not really a selling point in the grand scheme of things.

ASP.NET Core is an excellent and high-performance general purpose web framework. Blazor is an excellent C# on the browser stack. And MAUI will target React Native (native controls) and Cordova (Blazor on Maui) at the same time ... which is extremely powerful. But that is half a year out. .NET has a lot to offer if you take individual app models of it. If you want to stick in one language, it is even a top contender.…

> If you want to stick in one language, it is even a top contender.

That's why I like it. Not only being able to do tons of stuff with one language, but using the same frameworks and libraries.

Re: .NET 6 Released

#362

Post by cutler »

dirkg wrote: post #296

I moved from C# to the NodeJs/JS/React world a while ago, when React was fairly new as well. I like JS as a language and the enormous progress thats been made in the JS ecosystem from the wild west days back then. But I have to say my most productive and enjoyable dev experience was with VS, C#, ReSharper etc. Magical intellisense and real refactoring across millions of LOCs and multiple assemblies, all kinds of tool…

Best of all - no Gradle to deal with.

Re: .NET 6 Released

#363

Post by DeathArrow »

jekude wrote: post #34

As a relatively new engineer (~2 years FAANG experience), there seems to be a connotation around .NET. Perhaps this is indicative of the larger Microsoft ecosystem, but it feels like my peers at university and in the industry tend to stay far away from .NET for personal projects, etc. Why is this?

>my peers at university and in the industry tend to stay far away from .NET for personal projects, etc.

>Why is this?

It's a reminiscence from the times .NET was Windows only and MS was considered evil by the Linux guys.

Some older people haven't learned that times have changed.

And for young people is missing the coolness factor, it isn't promoted and made fashionable like the shiny new framework X for Javascript.

Re: .NET 6 Released

#364

Post by Mountain_Skies »

dsizzle wrote: post #167
abdusco wrote: post #24

> In .NET 6, in-memory single file apps have been enabled for Windows and macOS. In .NET 5, this deployment type was limited to Linux. You can now publish a single-file binary that is both deployed and launched as a single file, for all supported OSes. Single files apps no longer extract any core runtime assemblies to temporary directories. This is a great! Now I can publish statically linked executables and run it e…

Kind of curious that Microsoft had a feature that was available in Linux but not Windows, no?

Seem to recall this happening several time with Microsoft Office for Mac getting certain features before Office for Windows did.

Re: .NET 6 Released

#365

Post by DeathArrow »

mmgutz wrote: post #284
UglyToad wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perceived cool factor, I think. Both .NET/C# and Java are the core of Dark Matter Development [0]. They're what a huge chunk of developers and enterprise actually use but they're not cool and they don't get blogged about. Obviously the history of EEE and Windows only legacy means there's a lot of hostility to anything .NET specifically amongst a subpopulation of developers. However I don't think it sufficiently expla…

Don't think it's just about coolness. In .NET there is usually one way to do things, the MS way. You don't have options. Whatever MS prescribes is practiced by most enterprise shops. I remember arguing for something closer to MVC (several open source solutions) when ASP.NET forms was the way to do things. It wasn't until ASP.NET MVC came out that enterprise shops came on board. I still see a lot of documentation that…

>In .NET there is usually one way to do things,

There are infinite ways to do things. But the most easier way to do things is one. And that is good because anyone can understand anyone's code.

Re: .NET 6 Released

#366

Post by DeathArrow »

moonchrome wrote: post #271
lowbloodsugar wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just "cool factor". From your linked article: "Where are the dark matter developers? Probably getting work done. Maybe using ASP.NET 1.1 at a local municipality or small office. Maybe working at a bottling plant in Mexico in VB6. Perhaps they are writing PHP calendar applications at a large chip manufacturer" i.e. in Cost Centers not Revenue Centers, which is to say in jobs that do not pay well, and their managem…

Exactly - .NET ecosystem and community is structured around cost center development. I see Microsoft attempting to make C#/ASP.NET more lean and faster to get started with (eg. minimal APIs) but I doubt they can overcome the stigma.

I was working with .NET most of my career. And I've been in a cost center just for one year.

Re: .NET 6 Released

#367

Post by DeathArrow »

orthoxerox wrote: post #199
jekude wrote: post #34

As a relatively new engineer (~2 years FAANG experience), there seems to be a connotation around .NET. Perhaps this is indicative of the larger Microsoft ecosystem, but it feels like my peers at university and in the industry tend to stay far away from .NET for personal projects, etc. Why is this?

.NET 6 (or 5, or Core 3.1) is absolutely fine for personal projects. The tooling is great, it runs on Windows and Linux, the web stack is miles better than Spring Boot. But if your personal projects are a stepping stone to a programming job, then .NET has a monstrous legacy problem. In 2002-2007 a lot of code was written using .NET in enterprises: it was the best way to write a rich desktop application for Windows an…

>But then Rails and Google Chrome came out and completely upended the webapp industry. Microsoft has been playing catch-up ever since.

And where is Rails now? .NET is still thriving.

>A modern startup could certainly use .NET 6 instead of the framework of the month to write their world-shattering program, but they won't, because .NET isn't cool. A lot of .NET jobs are in stuffy enterprises where you likely won't be paid to write a backend to a Svelte SPA in .NET 6, you will be paid to maintain an ASP.NET WebForms 2.0 monster that uses WCF to talk to some SOAP/XML webservices.

I get paid to write a modern microservice based application using .NET, Kubernetes, Docker, Consul, Redis, Postgres. I can't say it's boring. But it is true, the app is for an enterprise, not a startup. The payment is relatively good and the app is making money for the company, so we aren't a cost center.

Re: .NET 6 Released

#368

Post by jiggawatts »

kumarvvr wrote: post #291
jiggawatts wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This wouldn't matter so much except that Microsoft completely broke all backwards compatibility for ASP.NET web applications. There's no "wizard" upgrade. I'm working on migrating an ASP.NET 4.0 application right now, and it's basically stuck in the past. Physically, yes, it could be updated by the developers to work on .NET 6.0, but no manager will ever fund this. They don't understand the benefits, and no amount of…

> but no manager will ever fund this Looks like the way to convince them is to tell them we will be moving to a microservices based stack and slowly start building the services on modern stacks (and gRPC)

I mentally translate "modern" to 0.3.54 build 72 alpha.

Re: .NET 6 Released

#369

Post by cutler »

oaiey wrote: post #231
orthoxerox wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

.NET 6 (or 5, or Core 3.1) is absolutely fine for personal projects. The tooling is great, it runs on Windows and Linux, the web stack is miles better than Spring Boot. But if your personal projects are a stepping stone to a programming job, then .NET has a monstrous legacy problem. In 2002-2007 a lot of code was written using .NET in enterprises: it was the best way to write a rich desktop application for Windows an…

Legacy exists in every company and platform older than some years. You either do the business of brownfield jobs or not. Every platform has their ugly history .. they just call them differently: SOAP/WS, RMI, CORBA, 2to3, PHP4, jQuery, AngularJS 1, ... . If a platform does not have history, I would be worried that I am riding something which soon is the legacy. Microsoft does not play catchup in the web space. It is…

Any idea why .Net rates seem to be significantly lower than for comparable Java roles? Seems to be true in the UK according to Indeed.

Re: .NET 6 Released

#370

Post by DeathArrow »

kumarvvr wrote: post #291
jiggawatts wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This wouldn't matter so much except that Microsoft completely broke all backwards compatibility for ASP.NET web applications. There's no "wizard" upgrade. I'm working on migrating an ASP.NET 4.0 application right now, and it's basically stuck in the past. Physically, yes, it could be updated by the developers to work on .NET 6.0, but no manager will ever fund this. They don't understand the benefits, and no amount of…

> but no manager will ever fund this Looks like the way to convince them is to tell them we will be moving to a microservices based stack and slowly start building the services on modern stacks (and gRPC)

>Looks like the way to convince them is to tell them we will be moving to a microservices based stack and slowly start building the services on modern stacks (and gRPC)

We did just this at the company I work for. We are replacing an old monolith with modern architecture.

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