Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why • Hacker News Board

Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#361

Post by ghaff » Fri, Oct 29, 2021, 12:56 PM UTC

Olreich wrote: post #306

Buttons840 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Define fixed hours? Fixed hours sucks when people live in 4 or more different timezones. I'm trying to figure out if my current remote job is fixed hours. Nobody has ever asked me or said anything about the hours I work, but I am expected to be present for meetings, which usually occur in the middle of the day for me. Is that tier 3 or 4?

OP missed a category really. If there are any consistent sync points in the day with the whole team, that creates “core hours” where everyone is expected to be in during those, but otherwise the hours are whenever you want. Maybe call it 3.5? Also of note: you can have in-office work with the same flexible hours schemes.

One of the teams I'm on is mostly split between US East Coast and Europe and we generally have calls ~9-11am ET which is reasonable for everyone and don't generally expect anyone to be available outside of "normal working hours." That ~6 hour delta is probably about the largest that can easily be handled without someone being up early or working late though.

Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#362

Post by emddudley » Fri, Oct 29, 2021, 1:02 PM UTC

gizmo686 wrote: post #182

lend000 wrote: post #169

Not mentioned enough on this topic: not all engineers are software engineers and not all software engineers never need to touch hardware. If you plan to work on/with web frameworks, advertisements, data science, or pure CS topics for your whole career, then there's probably no excuse to force you to come into the office 5 days a week. But good luck doing that as a software engineer at a company like SpaceX, Tesla, In…

As a software engineer who just spent the past week in an airgapped lab debugging hardware issues, I can still do most of my work from home. 90% of the software I write works just fine in an emulator. We don't even have nearly enough hardware to give every engineer access.

> We don't even have nearly enough hardware to give every engineer access.

This is the problem I always run into too. An emulator should be standard on any system development program that has software interacting with hardware.

Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#363

Post by sbarre » Fri, Oct 29, 2021, 1:02 PM UTC

evenhovercraft wrote: post #349

Very grateful that my employer has committed to remaining flexible with remote work. Full time in the office, hybrid, or full time remote. It’s up to the individual. Full time remote has done wonders for my health - instead of a 2 hour commute I get to exercise. Instead of coming home stressed, annoyed, and sitting in front of the TV, I go outside for a solid hour+ after I close my laptop. I travel more liberally now…

> Full time in the office, hybrid, or full time remote. It’s up to the individual.

I feel like this is the key thing.

Instead of mandating blanket policies (whatever they are) that might not make sense for every team, trust your employees to self-organize in the way that makes the most sense for them and the way they work.

I'm in the same boat, and like you, doubt I will want to work any other way again.

Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#364

Post by technofiend » Fri, Oct 29, 2021, 1:04 PM UTC

quadrifoliate wrote: post #277

nirui wrote: post #210

> ... There is a more intriguing possibility, however. Work that is largely done remotely may be more efficient compared with an office-first model. I don't think in-person real-time communication is always effective. No, I personally think it's one of the least method of communication that can happen in an office environment when the topic gets slightly complex (that is, if the topic is complex enough for you to wri…

One reason I have found real-time communication ineffective is that it favors the narcissists and egoists in the conversation who are comfortable talking over everyone else. Guess what happens in this situation – Bob spends 40 minutes talking out of the hour's meeting about how his way is right, interrupts everyone, and by the end of the hour meeting the boss is saying “Well, why don't we do a proof of concept with B…

It's no fun if you don't enjoy confrontation but interrupting the interrupters a few times will eventually send the message you won't tolerate that kind of behavior. They will eventually learn it's not tolerated or accepted.

One of my old bosses would just say "Hang on, hang on..." over and over until the steamroller figured out they weren't going to be able to speak endlessly and they'd stop talking. Then he would reintroduce the subject and if they again tried to take over this boss would literally say "We've heard what you had to say, but XYZ wanted the say something as well". More than just stopping the disruptive behavior you have to acknowledge it and make it clear something else will happen now.

Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#365

Post by sbarre » Fri, Oct 29, 2021, 1:06 PM UTC

quadrifoliate wrote: post #277

nirui wrote: post #210

> ... There is a more intriguing possibility, however. Work that is largely done remotely may be more efficient compared with an office-first model. I don't think in-person real-time communication is always effective. No, I personally think it's one of the least method of communication that can happen in an office environment when the topic gets slightly complex (that is, if the topic is complex enough for you to wri…

One reason I have found real-time communication ineffective is that it favors the narcissists and egoists in the conversation who are comfortable talking over everyone else. Guess what happens in this situation – Bob spends 40 minutes talking out of the hour's meeting about how his way is right, interrupts everyone, and by the end of the hour meeting the boss is saying “Well, why don't we do a proof of concept with B…

Bob sounds pretty annoying, but I would also say that this team has a leadership failure if this is what happens regularly.

If I was Bob's manager I would have a clear conversation with him about his behaviour, and I would - at minimum - make sure that everyone on the team has a chance to present their ideas without interruption.

Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#366

Post by mpweiher » Fri, Oct 29, 2021, 1:10 PM UTC

MauroIksem wrote: post #149

icelancer wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> This took hours upon hours of my time. Time I could have spent working. What engineers and people on this site seem to not grasp is that "working" is not a strict definition that maps to "writing code" to management, business operations, marketing, sales... basically every non-engineering department. If that concept starts to take root in the mind, then it becomes a bit more clear why people like the office. Engin…

What sort of projects are 10x engineers working on?

Short projects.

Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#367

Post by Tade0 » Fri, Oct 29, 2021, 1:11 PM UTC

"In february 2020 Americans on average spent 5% of their working hours at home. By May, as lockdowns spread, the share had soared to 60%—a trend that was mirrored in other countries."

The way I see it, it appears that over half of the people stuck in traffic every day had no business being there in the first place.

I wonder how cities could promote remote work?

Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#368

Post by ghaff » Fri, Oct 29, 2021, 1:12 PM UTC

michaelt wrote: post #321

nly wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've just gone back to an office (I changed jobs) and I'm shocked how maybe 5 out of 8 of my team choose regular office work over hybrid simply because of the free lunches and dinners. Personally I find standing on a train for 45 minutes each way, and not being able to do small household errands on my breaks, like I can when I work from home, means my entire Mon-Fri is a cycle of sleep-eat-commute-work with no time t…

> I'm shocked how maybe 5 out of 8 of my team choose regular office work over hybrid simply because of the free lunches and dinners. Some people I know are bachelors who don't cook (weird lifestyle, but it takes all sorts I guess) so employers with canteens are a big attraction for them. Other people, I suspect, have reasons for getting back to the office that they're a bit shy about. Joking that you're just here for…

There are definitely people for whom having to deal with food seven days a week was a rude awakening. That said, as you note, I see people with significant commutes coming back into offices on a regular basis for reasons that are clearly not cafeteria related. (We don't have free meals or have dinner at all in my local office; I'm remote.)

Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#369

Post by abyssin » Fri, Oct 29, 2021, 1:13 PM UTC

jalfresi wrote: post #348

abyssin wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you consider commuting as labour, you’re creating an incentive for many workers to increase the distance between where they work and where they live. Something comparable has happened in Belgium with the system of company cars. A car with fuel card is considered as a standard part of the salary package, which is advantageous from a fiscal perspective. What you get is more traffic, pollution, urban sprawl and more…

"you’re creating an incentive for many workers to increase the distance between where they work and where they live" Having commuted for many many years, I literally cannot fathom how this line of thinking is even considered a reasonable counter. Do some poeple get to commute through a utopic wonderland? Have I been living/working in the wrong places all these years?

The people I know who choose to live outside the city underestimate the impact of commuting on their quality of life, and overestimate the benefits associated to living in the “countryside”. They want a backyard and a dog. Once they’re stuck in their lifestyle, they develop a blindness to alternatives. Their experience of the city is the one of a commuter – a terrible one. They end up really believing that city life has to be terrible too. They have no idea how to manage the amount of stuff sitting in their relatively cheaper house. They forget about parks and alternative means of transportation to cars.

People should realize that comfortable car-centric lifestyles are too expensive for them to afford. I’m talking from the perspective of a Western European country.

Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#370

Post by johanneskanybal » Fri, Oct 29, 2021, 1:15 PM UTC

kwertyoowiyop wrote: post #350

> Economists have less insight into why remote workers might be more productive. One possibility is that they can more easily focus on tasks than in an office, where the temptation to gossip with a co-worker looms large. Wow, how out of touch and patronizing is this? How about, it’s hard to concentrate in these cheap open-plan offices where you have to listen to every other conversation in the vicinity?

haha very much this. The upside of not getting disturbed while concentrating and having better work/life balance is not exactly one of life greatest mysteries.

https://heeris.id.au/trinkets/ProgrammerInterrupted.png