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Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant until 2022

reuters.com

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Re: Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant until 2022

#361

Post by rabbitsbynight »

kbaker wrote: post #114

One important part of the chip shortage is the massive amount of price gouging going on. Every IC is being bought up by new 3rd party distributors to scalp to desperate electronics manufacturers. Take a look at this chip we are just now crossing as an example, click on 'Non-authorized stocking distributors': https://octopart.com/tps2052bdgnr-texas+instruments-699312?r... Win Source has a bunch, but you will pay 6x th…

I really enjoyed this comment and the thread it started. I wrote some thoughts as a little blog post, and would welcome any thoughts or contrary opinions (I'm no expert, just thinking out loud).

https://rabbitsbynight.notion.site/Scalping-vs-price-gouging...

Re: Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant until 2022

#362

Post by lmm »

nitrogen wrote: post #347
lmm wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Demand would be met with an increase in supply, satisfying all needs for the product and without the "help" of scalpers who sidestep supply-and-demand by artificially creating scarcity to drive up demand for their own profit. This is no help to anyone but themselves. There's no "artificial" demand. Think about it - the "scalper" isn't going to buy something that they can't sell on, they'd just lose money that way.…

Think about it - the "scalper" isn't going to buy something that they can't sell on, they'd just lose money that way. The only reason they can sell something on is because they created an artificial scarcity of the thing. If widget X has a well-matched supply and demand, and a scalper decides to buy 10% of widget X, then 10% of the demand is now unmet, some of the buyers go out of business, and the maker of widget X…

> The only reason they can sell something on is because they created an artificial scarcity of the thing. If widget X has a well-matched supply and demand, and a scalper decides to buy 10% of widget X, then 10% of the demand is now unmet, some of the buyers go out of business, and the maker of widget X now has 90 something % of their previous market.

If that happens, then the price drops, and the "scalper" loses money - demand has some elasticity, and a healthy market has some slack in it. Momentum-trading speculation works sometimes, but anyone who uses it as their sole strategy will go bankrupt sooner or later.

Re: Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant until 2022

#363

Post by esyir »

pishpash wrote: post #235
10000truths wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on what is causing the lack of supply. If the bottleneck lies in factors beyond the control of consumers, i.e. discontinued production, or shortage of raw material, then I see no inherent issue with scalping. But if it’s the scalpers themselves that cause an otherwise plentiful supply to become scarce, then they are the cause of the shortage, rather than the effect, and their behavior should be curbed. The…

They could only do that by cornering the market, but if there are many competitive scalpers, then the price is right and that's just normal supply (at the source supplier, not the scalper) and demand.

Except that your markets are not perfect, your scalpers have overhead and now represent a middleman who wants their cut.

Re: Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant until 2022

#364

Post by lmm »

Retric wrote: post #349
lmm wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Demand would be met with an increase in supply, satisfying all needs for the product and without the "help" of scalpers who sidestep supply-and-demand by artificially creating scarcity to drive up demand for their own profit. This is no help to anyone but themselves. There's no "artificial" demand. Think about it - the "scalper" isn't going to buy something that they can't sell on, they'd just lose money that way.…

> The scalper isn’t going to buy something they can’t sell on That assumes they have perfect information which they don’t they can only estimate demand. It’s perfectly rational for a scalper to regularly purchase more tickets than they sell due to the kind of markup their looking for. At say 4x they could on average sell 1/2 the tickets while doubling their investment. And of course that assumes they never run into l…

> It’s perfectly rational for a scalper to regularly purchase more tickets than they sell due to the kind of markup their looking for. At say 4x they could on average sell 1/2 the tickets while doubling their investment.

True, but in that case they've added more value than they've subtracted. That artists insist on pricing every concert to sell out is a big part of the problem here; you'd get a more functional market by accepting a few empty seats to give some slack.

Re: Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant until 2022

#365

Post by dfadsadsf »

JudasGoat wrote: post #266
caeril wrote: post #21

What I'll never understand is why carmakers don't take advantage of this situation and address a market that's been literally BEGGING for decades for a new product: A simple, basic car, with the ONLY electronic control being for: - Valve timing - Fuel injection - Oxygen and throttle - Emissions There's a market for budget and privacy oriented customers that all carmakers seem to have ignored for two decades now. Give…

I personally wish that the infotainment part of the vehicle was a interface cable where the customer could freely choose the platform and also have an upgrade path in the future. Making cars more like cell phones means they will assume the lifetime of a cell phone.

That’s already exist - Apple Carplay/Android Auto. Gets better with every iOS release and app update. First thing i do when i get in the car is plug my phone in and support for wireless Carplay will be major factor in my next car purchase.

Re: Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant until 2022

#366

Post by Lord_Baltimore »

Retric wrote: post #349
lmm wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Demand would be met with an increase in supply, satisfying all needs for the product and without the "help" of scalpers who sidestep supply-and-demand by artificially creating scarcity to drive up demand for their own profit. This is no help to anyone but themselves. There's no "artificial" demand. Think about it - the "scalper" isn't going to buy something that they can't sell on, they'd just lose money that way.…

> The scalper isn’t going to buy something they can’t sell on That assumes they have perfect information which they don’t they can only estimate demand. It’s perfectly rational for a scalper to regularly purchase more tickets than they sell due to the kind of markup their looking for. At say 4x they could on average sell 1/2 the tickets while doubling their investment. And of course that assumes they never run into l…

1. No one assumes that they have perfect information. No one says this is perfect just better than the other ways to handle these situations!

2. Who do you think will consistently have better information than someone whose sole goal is to sell these tickets?

3. If they are consistently losing money scalping and not selling tickets they won't be a scalper much longer.

4. This is a dynamic process which can account for changing variables regarding supply and demand quickly as opposed to rules and regulations which do not.

5. If they only sell half the tickets at 4x then they could sell the last half at an extreme discount and make even more than double their investment! Do you think they would rather make more money or less?

Re: Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant until 2022

#367

Post by rjzzleep »

yholio wrote: post #289
nicoburns wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Governments can do this without the inefficiency of the scalpers profits in cases where the need is great.

Also known as a command economy, a staple stalinist recipe.

Such an idiotic statement. When every other country was suffering under scalpers buying up mask supplies at the beginning of the pandemic Taiwan, South Korea and some other countries actively took a hand in mask distribution. The result:

- cheaper access to masks for the general population

- no mask shortages in critical infrastructure such as hospitals or other health care institutions

- general better handling and health outcomes during the pandemic

Leave it to the Americans that would consider sound policy and good health outcomes stalinist or communist recipes.

Re: Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant until 2022

#368

Post by TomVDB »

tibbon wrote: post #243
hristov wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all this "simple" car may end up being more expensive. Doing a lot of the things the old mechanical way requires a lot of labor and labor is expensive nowadays. Having to use turning wires and vacuum tubes for instrument clusters, and a bunch of pull wires for controls... Not only would that be expensive it would require skills and equipment long lost today. Oh and the wind shield wipers -- it is possible to…

One of my motorcycles is from 1973. Nary a tube or chip on it. I think it's got a turn blinker that's kinda a flip-flop, but I think it's just charging and discharging capacitors. It's lasted way longer than most modern disposable vehicles. I don't know if most of these things actually require digital features.

Does that motorcycle pass modern emission requirements?

The engine controle unit plays a major role in emission control and fuel economy.

Re: Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant until 2022

#369

Post by [deleted] »

exporectomy wrote: post #334
dapids wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Scalpers perform a social service" Good luck finding anyone willing to recognize this absurd point. > "the problem is low competition" Tell that to the GPU market.

You disagree but with no reasons. You should consider why you hold that belief.

[deleted]

Re: Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant until 2022

#370

Post by [deleted] »

exporectomy wrote: post #334
dapids wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Scalpers perform a social service" Good luck finding anyone willing to recognize this absurd point. > "the problem is low competition" Tell that to the GPU market.

You disagree but with no reasons. You should consider why you hold that belief.

[deleted]
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