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Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

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Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#361

Post by blobbers »

tqi wrote: post #357

I'm not familiar with this particular set of findings, but generally speaking internal research at Facebook are generally either large scale in-app surveys (which suffer from response bias) or small scale (often ~10 participants from a single city) in-person interviews. It's useful for informing product roadmaps, but I don't think we can really draw bigger conclusions from it. Put it a different way, if this research…

You're claiming a company that has over 20% of the WORLD POPULATION is informing themselves based on 10 participants from a single city? Are you making fun of their internal research team?

Yes, if a rigorous study found that social media helped girls, and there were replications of said study, then people would buy that. This is how research works!

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#362

Post by gerry_shaw »

dweekly wrote: post #337
jxramos wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wow this is fascinating, taking the veneer of something in the tautological space and using it as sheep's clothing over something known to be a wolf. There's something curious about this form of misleading that deserves to be identified and named to be called out in future instances.

"Foods containing sugar have been found to save lives in a number of studies." "Regular smoking use is associated with lower BMI, which is shown to correlate with improved heart health and lower mortality rates." "Use of fossil fuels powers a number of ecology-preserving tasks, allowing us to care for the environment in a way we could not without this amazing source of Earth-loving fuel."

You are far too good at crafting these passages.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#363

Post by triceratops »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #333
afavour wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you teach your kids not to consume drugs, why Instagram should be any different? Imagine if all the other kids at school used drugs on a daily basis, that there was advertising plastered everywhere telling you that drugs are cool, that successful people use drugs and that your worth in this world can be directly tied to successful use of drugs. I don't mean to sound mean here, but are you a parent? If not I susp…

This is quite an interesting thought experiment. As noted by @aspaviento, they were able to resist smoking, regardless of surrounding influences. Do you have any comments on the tactics used by cigarette companies -- specifically in the United States -- before the 1998 "Tobacco Master Settlement Agreement"? When I was a kid, the amount of advertising by tobacco was incredible. It was unavoidable and everywhere... and…

> Do you have any comments on the tactics used by cigarette companies -- specifically in the United States -- before the 1998 "Tobacco Master Settlement Agreement"?

The tactics worked? Rates of smoking used to be way higher in the past.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#364

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

Salgat wrote: post #344
Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #338

IMO, A simple social media site focused on pictures wouldn't be nearly as damaging on its own. What's really causing the issue are the filters and photo editing, which has caused "beauty" standards to hit extremely unrealistic levels, and their self-esteem plummets. I put beauty in quotes because many of those filters are extremely unattractive, making their skin look like plastic and lips look cartoonishly large. So…

My wife has many friends who use filters on all their pictures and these people look nothing like their original selves. Imagine you're even a decent looking kid and every damn photo you come across online are these unrealistic fake images that are portrayed as real. I know photo editing has been done in marketing for decades, but the biggest difference is that you knew those were professional models and people you'd…

A few years ago, my sister-in-law posted a picture of herself on Facebook, and so many people were commenting on how beautiful she was.

And I'm over here thinking "Oh my god this photo is so clearly filtered." The color in her eyes had added saturation, eyebrows filled in, skin tone smoothed out, skin texture basically completely removed...

The worst part is, she's already a nice looking woman. She didn't need the filters. And yet she felt the need to use them anyways.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#365

Post by lkey »

everdrive wrote: post #117

Facebook is an accelerant. The movie "Mean Girls" largely predated social media and highlighted many of the same issues. This seems to be a pretty ingrained issue, although I think most people agree that Facebook makes it worse. Here's a theory that's nearly guaranteed to land me in hot water: Why are young girls so awful to each other? I don't think it's unreasonable to suspect that is has to do with "hormones," new…

You seem to be aware that you are just navel gazing here.

You've based your analysis on a comedy you saw in the 2000s that in turn based itself on the experiences of white affluent American teenagers.

The second leg of your analysis is not grounded in an understanding of actual female biology.

The one 'fact' you cite is wrong, 'young girls' are not the most fertile, the range for peak fertility for women is from their very late teens (18-19) to late 20s. The majority peaks in their early to mid 20s (~24 years old).

If you want to comment about how women and men function 'evolutionarily', please at least understand a bit about how human biology works right now.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#366

Post by 6gvONxR4sf7o »

joelbluminator wrote: post #14

Is it Facebook / Instagram's fault or us as a culture? As a culture we adore beauty, wealth, power...Facebook seems to be just a platform where our natural desires can have a play. Facebook hasn't created this impossible beauty ideal, it was created long long ago by Hollywood and the fashion industry. Facebook just makes it super easy for people to become obsessed with something by "connecting" with it. It used to be…

There are quotes from internal research in the article that Instagram is worse than the alternatives like tiktok. And internal researchers are quoted as saying that this research gets internal pushback because it’s standing between people and their bonuses. Those bonuses aren’t for letting culture play out; they’re for things that wouldn’t have happened otherwise. It seems super clear that it’s an Instagram problem.

A great example is the girl who searched for exercise tips once and then her feed was algorithmically focused on weight loss tips and the like afterwards, which is not a cultural issue.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#367

Post by triceratops »

aspaviento wrote: post #246
afavour wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you teach your kids not to consume drugs, why Instagram should be any different? Imagine if all the other kids at school used drugs on a daily basis, that there was advertising plastered everywhere telling you that drugs are cool, that successful people use drugs and that your worth in this world can be directly tied to successful use of drugs. I don't mean to sound mean here, but are you a parent? If not I susp…

I don't want to use myself as an example because it's just my experience but when I was young people around me smoked, many of my teachers smoked and in TV and movies smoking was still accepted as something approved by society. But I was taught not to do it and never did it. With this I just want to say that I know it's a difficult task but presenting it as a lost battle/impossible seems to me wrong.

> when I was young people around me smoked

> But I was taught not to do it and never did it.

So not all young people in your time were taught similarly. Or if they were, those teachings didn't stick.

Ideally the number of minors smoking would be zero. I don't think that's a radical idea, and I hope it's something that everyone can agree on. "Teachings from parents" obviously didn't achieve that goal, from your own experience.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#368

Post by bumby »

smithza wrote: post #283
wussboy wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a personal grudge against anyone saying "Why don't the parents take some responsibility to combat a multi-billion dollar company who puts the resources of small countries in to making their children behave in detrimental ways." But I'll not get in to that. :) Facebook and Instagram are drug dealers. Sure, they're not physically distributing a substance, but the social interactions they provide are every bit as…

I will say emphatically that parents of teens are the most influential people in their lives, whether acknowledged or no. It is likely the case that parents will forever be the most influential people in someone's life and the positions you take, the behaviors you engage in, and what you teach will stick with them for their whole lives. Take a stance and teach them. They may rebel, they may not, but years down the ro…

>I will say emphatically that parents of teens are the most influential people in their lives

I don't work in behavioral science, but this isn't my understanding. I was under the impression that research indicates peers are the larger influence, which can be tempered somewhat by parents. For an easy example, whether or not peers smoke is a better predictor than whether parents smoke.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#369

Post by smithza »

SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #360
smithza wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will say emphatically that parents of teens are the most influential people in their lives, whether acknowledged or no. It is likely the case that parents will forever be the most influential people in someone's life and the positions you take, the behaviors you engage in, and what you teach will stick with them for their whole lives. Take a stance and teach them. They may rebel, they may not, but years down the ro…

Parental control cannot and can never be used as a singular or even more influential factor to societal level problems. Parents can have all the best intentions in the world but if the society they’re trying to raise children in is broken, they can’t protect those children forever.

It isn't about protection. It is about values and moral principles. Parents can teach children tools about self control and mindfulness about evaluating if things are good for them or not. Teens and young adults have to explore and figure out their place in the world apart from their parents, but the skills and values taught are often transcendent of the shifting values in culture.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#370

Post by spockz »

everdrive wrote: post #127
spockz wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This shows how a statement can be factually true and completely disingenuous at the same time. Yes 1/3 are effected badly but we just say that it can have positive effects. Just omitting the fact that it often has a detrimental effect…

It sounds like this is part of the point you're making, but this sort of statement should only be considered a lie. Some philosophers might correctly call this "bullshit," however colloquially it's the same as a lie: it intends to deceive.

It was. I was so disgusted with how this way of saying “technically true” things is used and accepted. As the other comment stated.
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