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A generation of American men give up on college

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Re: A generation of American men give up on college

#361

Post by School-Cotton »

WalterBright wrote: post #142
zapnuk wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how woman feel reading such comments. Men dominated better paying jobs and positions of power since forever. It took 50+ years between equal rights before the law to equal opportunities in the labour market and education. Men still have every opportunity a woman has. In addition, they are still recognized more for leading positions. They also dominate about every trade related job. Yet, they are 'left withou…

My grandmother worked as a mechanic for the phone company in the nine-teens. Her sister did whatever she wanted, she started and ran her own business.

What are the “nine-teens”?

Re: A generation of American men give up on college

#362

Post by ransom1538 »

baron816 wrote: post #63

A lot of this is driven by narratives—A narrative that college isn’t worth it anymore. A narrative that (white) men are uniformly privileged and life is just easy for them. And a narrative that those men aren’t wanted by society any more. I’m not convinced that all those men need to go to college, but they clearly need something. They need to feel like they’re part of society. Nothing good can come of an entire gener…

I would like to bring up a point often missed with blue collar housing work (plumber, electrician, dry wall, etc). It is EASY to start your own thing. Once you are licensed and bonded you can quickly buy your own truck, hire an apprentice, setup yelp, setup an online receptionist and be overbooked. Right now plumbers are hard to get and electricians are months out. The plumbers I work with cannot keep up with the work and make over $80 per hour (no where florida). If "Bobs orlando plumbing" runs out of work, they just park the truck. There is NO overhead.

If you contrast to an attorney or doctor -- those firms/practices are extremely challenging to start and operate on your own. The salaries of your employees are high at best, marketing is extremely expensive, and insurance can wipe out a firm/practice.

Re: A generation of American men give up on college

#363

Post by pessimizer »

jmeister wrote: post #145
throwtheworld wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A narrative that (white) men are uniformly privileged and life is just easy for them. This is very perspective dependent. I’m a black college student now and every conversation with friends back home includes some mention of dropping out because it’s not for us as well. When you see people with equivalent resumes already coasting by in the job market because they could get their last names and LinkedIn photos past…

I’m sorry, in 2021, companies and universities are bending over backwards to hire black candidates. This falls in the “earth is not flat” category in 2021, I will not bother posting evidence, as a litmus test of the HN crowd.

I'm sorry, I'm black and this is not my experience. I will not bother posting evidence either, because why does evidence matter when you already know something to be true, right?

Re: A generation of American men give up on college

#364

Post by nemo44x »

pelasaco wrote: post #337
baron816 wrote: post #63

A lot of this is driven by narratives—A narrative that college isn’t worth it anymore. A narrative that (white) men are uniformly privileged and life is just easy for them. And a narrative that those men aren’t wanted by society any more. I’m not convinced that all those men need to go to college, but they clearly need something. They need to feel like they’re part of society. Nothing good can come of an entire gener…

I think that's exactly how racism works right? You segregate people by how they look like and you make them believe that because how they look like and their origins they are less important then the others. Kind of funny how we humans think: "let's correct a mistake repeating it over and over again".

When one of progressives guiding philosophies is “The only remedy to past discrimination is present discrimination. The only remedy to present discrimination is future discrimination.” then this is exactly the plan. It’s all in their texts and one only has to read them to see plainly the type of policy they work towards.

Re: A generation of American men give up on college

#365

Post by damagednoob »

throwtheworld wrote: post #99
baron816 wrote: post #63

A lot of this is driven by narratives—A narrative that college isn’t worth it anymore. A narrative that (white) men are uniformly privileged and life is just easy for them. And a narrative that those men aren’t wanted by society any more. I’m not convinced that all those men need to go to college, but they clearly need something. They need to feel like they’re part of society. Nothing good can come of an entire gener…

> A narrative that (white) men are uniformly privileged and life is just easy for them. This is very perspective dependent. I’m a black college student now and every conversation with friends back home includes some mention of dropping out because it’s not for us as well. When you see people with equivalent resumes already coasting by in the job market because they could get their last names and LinkedIn photos past…

Where are you and your friends getting your information from? If you're in the US or Europe, IMO the market for programmers has never been better. It may be a struggle to get the first job but if you persevere, it will get easier.

Re: A generation of American men give up on college

#366

Post by the-dude »

dempseye wrote: post #336
the-dude wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with sentiment, and I discovered early on in my adult life : Iedereen doet maar wat ( Dutch ) Loosely translated : Everybody just fucks around , wether it is car mechanics, doctors or laywers. Would love to hear a more canonical term for the phenomenon. edit: And if it is absolutely critical it is done right? Do it yourself.

Is this a common expression in Dutch or something you made up yourself?

doet maar wat is common.

Je doet maar wat ( You )

Ze doen maar wat ( They )

Re: A generation of American men give up on college

#367

Post by aogaili »

pwthornton wrote: post #35
frankbreetz wrote: post #10

On the other side: A stat shared at my most recent tech companies meeting, they are trying to hire more women. 5000 people applied for a single position and 15 of them were women. This was for a high paying tech job.

One thing I am starting to wonder about is if there is a systematic guidance counseling failing in high schools and colleges. There are so many well paying tech jobs that we just aren't getting that many candidates for. Forget not having a great gender ratio, it is often hard to find a lot of candidates for my openings. If I can't offer sponsorship, it can take awhile There clearly seems to be a lot more knowledge in…

When I was studying software engineering, I met a girl who switched major after the first year.

I saw her again once in the lab, and I asked her why did you switch, she said, and I quote her exact words: "why would I sit and code all day when I've this a$$, pointing at her back."

I honestly didn't know what to say afterward. Our program had special scholarship for women, and we had only one woman (out of 30 or so) and that was more than 10 years ago.

Re: A generation of American men give up on college

#368

Post by b7a9a9a »

throwtheworld wrote: post #99
baron816 wrote: post #63

A lot of this is driven by narratives—A narrative that college isn’t worth it anymore. A narrative that (white) men are uniformly privileged and life is just easy for them. And a narrative that those men aren’t wanted by society any more. I’m not convinced that all those men need to go to college, but they clearly need something. They need to feel like they’re part of society. Nothing good can come of an entire gener…

> A narrative that (white) men are uniformly privileged and life is just easy for them. This is very perspective dependent. I’m a black college student now and every conversation with friends back home includes some mention of dropping out because it’s not for us as well. When you see people with equivalent resumes already coasting by in the job market because they could get their last names and LinkedIn photos past…

complete your degree and then do federal contracting; for entrepreneurship:

https://www.sba.gov/business-guide/grow-your-business/minori...

> we’re not what companies are looking for even with fancy CS degrees.

You are exactly what the federal government is looking for. US contract procurement has a significant racial spoils system within it.

Re: A generation of American men give up on college

#369

Post by Applejinx »

jkhdigital wrote: post #341
Applejinx wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an American and agree completely. My concern is that this '90% struggling' is considered by too many to be a default, the desired state of things. This pops up over and over again in so many ways. I think it leads to people drawing their distinctions, around who is superior and who is inferior, and then it leads to those people making an unnecessary logical jump and deciding that those inferior people need to be…

People are not components in an engineered system. When you work with statistics it might appear that way, but people have a way of creating conflict and chaos when least expected. It is a fallacy to think that one need only set up the right societal structures and this problem will magically vanish.

Define 'problem' and why anybody would think the requirement was that it would magically vanish, else society does not count.

Society functions THROUGH conflict and chaos. It's like brownian motion, noise in circuitry: if you're trying to define an ideology where there's no more conflict, the most direct way is to define an enemy and then rally everyone to destroy it. And that is said to work for a thousand years but actually blows up within ten, leaving enormous wreckage and shame.

Better to design the fault-tolerant system that runs through conflict and chaos.

Re: A generation of American men give up on college

#370

Post by astura »

dudul wrote: post #294
dkdk8283 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My company is only hiring black engineers or women. You have no chance if you are a white man and don’t have an in.

It's not as extrem for me, but I was told by HR that all female/non-white applicants had to move automatically to the phone screen step, regardless of the resume.

So you're guessing everyone's race/ethnicity and gender identity based on their resume?
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