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FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

fda.gov

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Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#361

Post by valenterry »

briffle wrote: post #359
valenterry wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about the cases of narcolepsy that were caused by the swine-flu vaccine Pandremix? As far as I understand it took around 2 years before it was officially stated that the vaccine was/is the cause for these cases. Until 2015 the numbers grew even higher because of the delay between vaccination and the first symptoms. I wouldn't really call that "soon after it is administered". And the same is also true for covid's…

I have never heard of that, can you share a link? I would like to read more.

Here's a starting point: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandemrix#Narcolepsy

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#362

Post by lovecg »

mlang23 wrote: post #220
cbg0 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More likely than not, they'll just move the goalposts farther and find a different excuse for not getting it.

The vaccination is still not mandatory, right? Why do you write "excuse"? Are you really so full of yourself that you can not accept that people make different decisions from yours? Why do you even care? I assume you got the vaccine for yourself. So what is the issue? Why do you have to speak about your fellow humans in such a derogatory tone?

I personally don’t have an issue with this decision if they also opt out of any (btw also experimental, not approved) treatments for Covid in case they do get it. You know, to be consistent. Will keep the hospitals from becoming overcrowded.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#363

Post by rootusrootus »

peakaboo wrote: post #94
cbg0 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More likely than not, they'll just move the goalposts farther and find a different excuse for not getting it.

Even if true, so what? It's their bodies. They should be allowed to choose, just like you are.

Yes. I should be allowed to choose whom I want to associate with, too, and exclude those who represent a larger infectious disease risk. That's the rub. We need to make it effortless for people to make these choices.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#364

Post by TobTobXX »

0xB31B1B wrote: post #306
thepasswordis wrote: post #200

People don’t want to take the vaccine because others are trying to force them to. They would say “it’s not FDA approved!” not as the core of their hesitancy, but because they were trying to be appeal to pro-vax peoples decision making framework. I don’t think we should be able to require them to. To many of you here: imagine the Trump admin trying to require you to take the vaccine in November of last year. Cities wo…

we don't require anyone to take the vaccine, and we will never require anyone to take the vaccine. What we should and will do is restrict what someone who is not vaccinated can do to limit the harm they will cause to others. No one is going to bang down your door and force a vaccine into your arm, but if you do not want to get vaccinated you will need to change your life because you will be restricted from participat…

Y... yes, that's the same.

Compare: "You can murder someone, but then freedoms will be taken from you, because you could hurt someone with these freedoms. You won't get brainwashed out of it, but if you do commit murder, your freedoms are taken away."

Not arguing against the policy, but it in practice, it _is_ the same.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#365

Post by hudsonjr »

frankfrankfrank wrote: post #256
bluGill wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm expecting most fortune 500 companies will now mandate all employees be vaccinated, along with most colleges.

I am curious to see how this goes, because it will also be a clear indicator where our society and civilization is heading if there is no legal recourse against illegitimate authoritarian dictates that simply alter established practices to follow form over function. There is of course also the issue that mandates come with legal liability for consequences that manufacturers are seemingly not liable for. However, when…

I work for a company that I consider pro-vax, but they are not requiring vaccination. My guess it is for liability reasons, and they will probably defer to local regulations.

I'm vaccinated and everyone I know is, but I cringe a bit at the tolerance of what seems authoritarian to me. If I were to wager, things get better once antiviral treatments improve and when data analysis gets better, not when "full compliance" happens. To me it's clear that there is a seasonal nature, but it varies based on latitude/climate/time of year. For whatever reason it seems taboo to mention this. Anyone wanting to prove a point about masks/vaccines working or not working often compares one region/climate to another.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#366

Post by saalweachter »

formerly_proven wrote: post #75
bart_spoon wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which still wouldn't be a logical argument, given that the same applies regarding long-term health outcomes regarding getting sick with Covid. But I suspect you are right.

"But Covid is something natural, while the vaccine is man-made."

I mean, technically, while there may be animal reservoirs, ~all of the coronavirus you will ever be exposed to is made by human cells. Although probably only 50-50 on being made inside a man's cells.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#367

Post by hendersoon »

odessacubbage wrote: post #332
NineStarPoint wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because in cases like this, the choice they’re making with their body can be directly responsible for the hospitalization and death of other people in their vicinity. Vaccines aren’t fool proof, every person who doesn’t take the vaccine is an increased chance for those who did take the vaccine to get exposed to a breakthrough case. I know I wouldn’t want to work in person at any place that didn’t have a vaccine manda…

are you overweight, elderly or otherwise immunocompromised? if not your risk of hospitalization or death [from covid19] is miniscule. >it being hard to be a part of society if you refuse to take one of the most basic steps to protect other people in it. there are a huge number of diseases you can knowingly spread with far more severe long term consequences while still being 'part of society'. frankly i do not think f…

If you're in the western world, catch COVID right now, and aren't vaccinated, even if you aren't immunocompromised, diabetic, elderly, or obese odds are your chances of dying from COVID are higher than any other disease you've caught in your life.

Now it's true that chance is probably somewhere around 0.3% assuming you don't live in an area where hospitals are out of ICU beds and vents. But it's your _life_ at risk.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#368

Post by umvi »

enumjorge wrote: post #149
peakaboo wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if true, so what? It's their bodies. They should be allowed to choose, just like you are.

Again with this argument. This particular decision with their bodies is harming others. Getting really drunk and driving home is also a decision about your body. So is smoking inside restaurants. Those have been illegal for a while. For those of us who got the vaccine, we’re still having to take precautions because of the delta variant spikes, largely from people who didn’t get a vaccine. Where is our choice?

> So is smoking inside restaurants.

But not smoking in your car or at home. There are tons of American parents who hotbox their kids with cigarette or marijuana smoke on a daily basis which not only harms them with second hand smoke but increases their chances of smoking themselves by an astronomical factor.

Parents legally harm their children constantly by setting bad diet patterns (child obesity), or substance abuse patterns just to name a few ways. Should we make that illegal and have the state raise those kids?

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#369

Post by jerf »

ceejayoz wrote: post #255
jerf wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That data can be relevant. "Other historical vaccines" can not.

Nah. Historical vaccines effectively cover "what happens when we train the immune system to react to something via vaccination", which is still quite relevant with mRNA vaccines. mRNA's short half-life - on the matter of a few dozens of minutes - and pre-existence in our bodies helps us not worry too much about the differences in delivery mechanism.

That's not how science works. We may have various bits of logic that can tweak our initial probability analysis, but we have to do the testing. When we change something fundamental, it must be tested, and things in the past that are similar, but not identical, are not sufficient. This is especially true for something that is being injected into the entire general population, which calls for the highest level of scientific certainty before proceeding.

"We think based on biochemistry that mRNA acts like this, and we hope it does that, and we think it probably does the other" doesn't carry much weight here. The probability of any element of that chain of logic being wrong is too high.

I'm not saying that testing wasn't done. I'm saying "eh, it's probably OK, mRNA looks pretty safe" is not a useful contribution to this sort of discussion.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#370

Post by aspaceman »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #128

Do you hear that? It's the sound of millions of goalposts being moved.

It's kinda fun seeing it happen in real-time in the comments though. Lol. These people will be the joke of history books. I can imagine the line already:

"While many were hopeful that FDA approval would assuage the large amount of vaccine skepticism, it did not seem to change the narrative."

I will continue laughing at their pathetic graves and funerals while being frustrated at their impact on me.

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