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An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology

appleprivacyletter.com

361–370 of 713 posts

Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology

#361
post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The dell and lenovo laptops are nowhere the quality of the apple machines, sadly. I have a maxed out xps and it is a downgrade in all respects but privacy. :/

I can't complain. But can't compare it to the M1. I had a 2020 MBPro and am currently using a XPS 13 with maxed out specs. The camera on the XPS is some leagues below. The microphone had driver issues from the start and it cost me two days for a software workaround. Other than that I am in every way more happy. Keyboard, track pad and resolution. Performance even with crappy corporate spy-and crapware is definitely w…

Speakers. Apple finally fixed laptop speakers. Nobody else has figured out how to copy it yet. :/

Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology

#362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The new system is overkill for iCloud, which Apple already scans. The obvious conclusion is Apple will start to scan photos kept on device, even where iCloud is not used. Very smart people are not getting this wrong.

Apple does not already scan iCloud.

Not sure why this got downvoted. This is correct and very thoroughly documented.

Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology

#363

It’s astounding how many very smart people are getting this wrong. Perhaps I missed it, but does anywhere on this letter mention that that both of these features are optional? CSAM depends on using iCloud Photos. Don’t rent someone else’s computer if you don’t want them to decide what you can put on it. Content filter for iMessages is for kids accounts only, and can be turned off. Or, even better: skip iMessages for…

Then why do the "CSAM" perceptual hashes live on the device and the checks themselves run on the device? Those hashes could be anything. Your phone is turning into a snitch against you, and the targeted content might be CCP Winnie the Pooh memes or content the people in charge do not like. We are not getting this wrong. Apple is taking an egregious step to satisfy the CCP and FBI. Future US politicians could easily b…

This boils down to two separate arguments against Apple: 1) what Apple has already implemented, and 2) what Apple might implement in the future. It's fine to be worried about the second one, but it's wrong to conflate the two.

Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology

#364
Yes, a major disappointment. I suggest reading a few William Gibson cyberpunk books to get a rough idea of the future, both society and tech. In fiction, and as a non-technical author, I think he gets it right. Everyone who has the technical knowledge to do so needs to decide how much effort they are willing to go through for privacy.

Personally, for my iPhone photos, I have my phone setup to upload every picture I take to Apple iCloud, Google Photos, and Microsoft OneDrive, so I gave up on photo privacy many years ago.

Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology

#365

I know the privacy approach Apple has been pushing was just marketing, but I didn't care too much because I enjoyed my iPhone and M1 macbook. Because of this decision (and the fact that my iPhone more-or-less facilitates poor habits throughout my life), I'm considering moving completely out of the Apple ecosystem. Does anyone have any recommendations for replacements? * On laptops: I have an X1 carbon extreme running…

Laptop | Desktop: https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/overview/cp/linuxsystem... Router: https://www.turris.com/en/omnia/overview/ Media Center: https://osmc.tv/vero/ Cloud (Use TrueNAS Scale): https://www.truenas.com/systems-overview/ Phone: https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/ Watch: https://pine64.com/product/pinetime-smartwatch-sealed/ Smart Thermostat: https://hestiapi.com/product/hestiapi-touch-one-free-shippin..…

I'm sympathetic to remove Apple and Google from my life, but this list looks so sad. You know the experience, integration and headache of all this is going to be horrible.

Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology

#366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The new system is overkill for iCloud, which Apple already scans. The obvious conclusion is Apple will start to scan photos kept on device, even where iCloud is not used. Very smart people are not getting this wrong.

> The obvious conclusion is Apple will start to scan photos kept on device, even where iCloud is not used. Why is this the obvious conclusion?

Partly it falls under the supposition of "if they can, they will". It's also suggested when they tout that they are going to start blurring "naked" pictures, of any kind, sent to children under 14. Which means they need some kind of tech to detect "naked" pictures, locally, across encrypted channels, in order to block them.

In theory, this is different tech than CSAM, which is supposed to checking hashes against a global database, vs determining the "nakedness" score of an arbitrary picture.

But, scan them once, scan them all, on your phone. The details start to matter less and less.

Also, since they already scanning all of the photos up on iCloud already, why would they need to have it put locally on the phone?

Finally, I know that Apple scans photos on my device, because that's how I get those "memories" of Furry Friends with vignettes of my cats. I don't even use iCloud. (To be clear, I love this feature. Send me movies of my cats once a week.)

Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology

#367
post #96

Both of the announced features sound fine on their own — Apple has always been able to scan iCloud and send your data to police [0], and PhotoDNA is a decade old; whereas on-device machine learning on kid phones does not (according to Apple) involve sending anything to Apple reviewers and the govt. But announcing both features in the same post makes it inevitable that they get conflated, e.g. “Apple’s machine learnin…

> Apple has always been able to scan iCloud and send your data to police I don’t see how the article you linked to explains how Apple can “scan iCloud” for the police. What do you mean? It seems like they just hand data over for a specific warrant related to individual users.

Sorry, are you insinuating that Apple has the ability to retrieve, read, and provide the unencrypted data from users' iCloud accounts, but not the ability to search across that data?

Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology

#368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The new system is overkill for iCloud, which Apple already scans. The obvious conclusion is Apple will start to scan photos kept on device, even where iCloud is not used. Very smart people are not getting this wrong.

Apple doesn't "scan" iCloud. Not sure what you're talking about. Generally everything in iCloud is E2E encrypted, with the exception of iCloud Backups, where Apple holds onto a decryption key and will use it to comply with subpoenas. But nothing is "scanned," and if you don't use iCloud backup, Apple can't see your data.

iCloud Photos aren’t E2E encrypted, but it’s unlikely they’re scanned for CSAM today because Apple generates effectively 0 references to NCMEC annually.

Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology

#369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple does not already scan iCloud.

Not sure why this got downvoted. This is correct and very thoroughly documented.

The meme tides have turned against logic on this topic.

Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology

#370
There has to be some incentive somewhere for Apple to do this. They know it's wrong, they know it will be abused. Tim Cook himself, if he wasn't rich and powerful, would be executed in a number of countries that Apple operates in for his sexual/romantic identity.

Apple also removes LGBT based applications in countries where they're illigal, to continue doing business. This demonstrates that Apple complies with the demands of foreign governments, that they value money over anything else.

So Apple, a company that complies with governments committing human rights violations (Including the U.S), forces everyone to have an image scanner that looks through their private images and documents to find content Apple has deemed objectionable, with the sources of that content supposedly being from these governments.

FBI: Hey apple, here's some new hashes for images that are bad, let us know who has them. You just have to trust us, no way that we would ever put political imagery critical of the government in that database. But you can't prove it even if we did.

Remember, this is the FBI that flaunts federal court orders, breaks the law, and no one is ever held accountable. https://youtu.be/oy3623YRsMk

My suspicion is that the FBI finally had enough of Apple not complying with their encryption standards and have done some work behind the scenes to make various individuals at Apple's lives difficult. So they're implementing this to appease the feds.

There was a thread on HN here not too long ago with the FBI stalking and threatening pentesters that wouldn't join them. No doubt they're doing the same to big companies that are making their "jobs" harder.

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