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My small revenge on Apple

javierantonsblog.blogspot.com

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Re: My small revenge on Apple

#361

Post by askafriend »

collaborative wrote: post #322
haswell wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asking an honest question: if Apple didn’t force this, would you really add this voluntarily? Because this response tells me you’re willing to compromise your user’s experience because of your personal issues with Apple. As a user, this does not give me confidence in your decision making. It’s somewhat understandable to be annoyed, even angry at Apple. But the moment you decide to pass that on to your users is the mo…

Honest answer: yes I don't even hold a grudge against Apple. This is just me trying to make the world a better place. It's in everyone's interest that Apple doesn't gain authority to force us to do things (don't forget, devs also are Apple customers)

As a user, I don’t trust your “honest answer”.

On the other hand, I absolutely trust Apple - my relationship with them spans over a decade and countless products/experiences.

I’m happy that they’re forcing devs to offer Apple Sign On as an option when other social logins are also offered. As a user, I trust Apple far more than any 3rd party dev.

I pay a premium to Apple because of their platform and the types of things they enforce.

I want you to understand that as a user, this is exactly what I want Apple to do and I pay extra for it.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#362

Post by elzbardico »

collaborative wrote: post #65
egghese wrote: post #17

The author's revenge seems to be against his users who opted to used Sign In with Apple. Since they will be the one suffering because they trusted to use the particular app. I can find merit in complaining about apple's restriction in accessing payments. But SignIn with Apple, as a user I will always opt for that given my email won't be available with a third party forever for them to spam or sell. I have integrated…

Apple forced Groups to choose between having AppleID, or losing Sign in with Google/FB. That would have been equally bad for existing users who had chosen Google/FB before Apple ID was even a thing. Perhaps Groups would have happily adopted Apple ID if it hadn't been forced on it At the end of the day Groups is a passion project. So it can be used to contribute to a world where developers aren't taken for granted App…

I am fucking happy that apple didn't allow you to force the choice between Google/Facebook or annoying account creating down the throats of your users. That's exactly the reason I pay more for apple hardware: UX consistency. If I didn't want it, I would be saving money using android and windows for equivalent hardware.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#363

Post by vasachi »

ksec wrote: post #160
Toutouxc wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because dev experience isn't what my post was about. I don't agree with some of the ways Apple treats developers, but I mostly agree with how they treat users and I genuinely like (MacBook) or at least understand and respect (iPhone) their products.

That is until you have Keyboard problem and Display problem from MacBook Pro 2016 where it was clearly a design defect.

Apple will fix those for free, you know?

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#364

Post by walls »

collaborative wrote: post #303
krustyburger wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, except that your “problem” is also the relationship Apple has with its customers. You did nothing to build the trust and loyalty that you mock in your snarky write-up. Apple did, to the point that their users would prefer to trust them with their personal information over someone else (you). The tone of your whole piece is sophomoric- you essentially suggest that all of Apple’s customers are uninformed and lac…

For what it's worth I'd like to apologize to anyone who identifies as an Apple user and has been offended by my tone. I intended to add a bit of humor but I know that perspective can make things feel a lot different Please replace every mention of "Apple user" with "Apple". It really is the only wrong party here

You definitely nailed the tone you were going for, you're just not liking the response.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#365

Post by thiagocsf »

collaborative wrote: post #231
user-the-name wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is basically no benefit to app developer in including it. It is more work, and you may get only an anonymised address. However, there is massive benefit to actual users. Apple decided to prioritise users over developers here.

Trust me, I say this as a developer, if there is any indication that I am losing out on users because I don't have Apple ID, I will make sure to add it asap. That is pretty much the reason why I first included FB and Google. I first only had Google, then some people aksed for FB. The natural course would have been that then some other guys ask for Apple and I add it. But Apple decided to abuse its position and force…

Going by this rationale, are you going to add Apple ID to your website when users request it?

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#366

Post by BugsJustFindMe »

bmarquez wrote: post #360
pokot0 wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't want to understand. Apple users are happy that they forced you. They like the AppleID experience and nobody would care to implement it if they didn't force developers. I know it's frustrating for you, but this is the core of why Apple users stick to Apple. They decided to trust and share their data with one single company (Apple) instead of an overwhelming amount of small companies. And it's not just about…

> Apple users are happy that they forced you. They like the AppleID experience and nobody would care to implement it if they didn't force developers. Are there any statistics on this? Apple never asked me if I wanted or liked the AppleID experience. When AppleID came out, I thought it only worked on Apple devices so my use was limited to non-cross platform applications. With developers removing AppleID from Android a…

They're not forcing you to use it. They're only forcing developers to give you the option. For you as a user there are only positives and no negatives.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#367

Post by TheParkShark »

sam0x17 wrote: post #340
skuthus wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, Apple users only care about privacy when it suits them - 5-6 years ago, it was not a priority of any apple user and many mocked non-apple people for caring about it. If apples handing it to you, it must be important, or so the thinking seems to go

It's also a facade as well. Notice that each time Cellebrite demonstrates that they can unlocked encrypted iphones, there isn't massive weeping and moaning in the Apple community, nor is there a mass exodus out of the ecosystem. Apple users only care about privacy if it happens to work. Once they lose it, they continue to be good little fanboys.

Is there a safer alternative phone/os that can’t be broken into by Cellebrite?

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#368

Post by jeroenhd »

uncomputation wrote: post #298
rovek wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your second quote conveniently chops out the main point of the article, which is that Apple abuse their dominance to force developers into having no choice.

I don’t see the abuse here. Sign In with Apple is only required if you already support Facebook or Google or another third-party social sign in. If you support only email and password, that’s fine. If you do support social sign in, presumably you do so because then you don’t have to worry about passwords and stuff. Well, this is exactly the same. I don’t see why it makes a difference.

The abuse is that Facebook won't refuse updates to your customers' devices if you choose not to opt into their SSO, but Apple most certainly will.

The problem is not the social sign in aspect, but that fact Apple forces you to implement it if you use their competitors' service.

Had Sign in with Apple not been mandatory, but merely something customers would ask developers for, then I'd consider the framework to be fair game. This simply isn't that.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#369

Post by collaborative »

BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #349
collaborative wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Caught me. I thought I was close to getting away with this, but alas, you've found that I am a saboteur from the International Brigades of Devious Developers and all I am hoping for is for public opinion to change so I can get my fellow criminals more email addresses Now seriously, I have said time and time again that I have no issues with Apple ID. I have a problem with how Apple forced it on me. Not nice

> I have a problem with how Apple forced it on me. Not nice Every single point you bring up is about you and not your users. All of your complaints in your post and in your comments in this thread ignore the fact that what Apple is doing is better for the humans on the other side from you. And your stinger at the end? > Apple users who logged into Groups via the app with Apple ID will need to create a second account.…

Well, what can I say, I am sorry. I am sorry for having to do this and wish things were different

But it is the only way I can shed light on Apple's behavior. I promise to add a transition mechanism, happy? I will still make sure users get to read some "Apple bad" message to highlight the reason behind Apple ID not being straightforward on the web

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#370

Post by haswell »

collaborative wrote: post #359
spacedcowboy wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Petulance does not become a developer. The last time I saw a tantrum thrown this much was when my kid was 5 and had a major meltdown over a lack of chocolate ice-cream. He didn't get any ice-cream for a week, a response that taught him meltdowns don't work.

You can judge my post as a tantrum, and I won't even take offense, friend Now I ask you this: how far are you willing to go to further a good cause? Watching from the sides feels more comfortable, but we are being decimated and doing nothing won't change a thing. We need to act now, or watch our profession/hobby/passion be used to fatten the already morbidly overweight big tech companies

> how far are you willing to go to further a good cause?

But what, exactly is the "good cause" here? Is the good cause to force Apple to stop delivering an experience that we've already established throughout this thread is an experience Apple users want?

There are so many problems and battles to be fought in tech, so much abusive behavior, so many dark patterns. This is not that. If this is the cause you're fighting, I fear you've missed the forest through the trees.

Unless you had something else in mind, in which case I'm genuinely curious.

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