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Under the skin of OnlyFans

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Re: Under the skin of OnlyFans

#361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gender relations becoming gameified and being turned into monetary micro-transactions is not a net win for society. Women debasing themselves and selling their body to appeal to an army of lonely simps that take refuge in a simulated relationship that is emotionally exploitative is not the kind of healthy pair-bonding I wish for my kids. It is socially corrosive. > Have you considered the alternative that this is not…

Thee wouldn't be a demise, it would just be a different kind of society. Males are expendable for most of society, in earlier centuries, they would die from warfare, diseases, working in high risk professions and so on. The current society we are in where we expect or desire pair bonding for life with an exclusive mate is rather new and unstable. Lost of women would be quite fine with a harem like system where they s…

>it would just be a different kind of society

We are allowed to rank them by our preferences.

I do not wish males to be treated more expendable than necessary. I wish they would live fulfilling life.

Catholic church was around in Europe as a force since early Middle ages. Wouldn't call it new, unless you have sources to contrary.

Re: Under the skin of OnlyFans

#362
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there are mental health costs that are often not talked about On the contrary, everyone is talking about mental costs, implying that they do not know what they are doing. I know a person who changed her work from being a cashier at a supermarket to a sex worker. Mentally, she benefited a lot. In one job, she felt like an automaton serving people. I other she had personal relationships with her clients. You can gues…

My wife who is a sex worker is in therapy provided by her camsite because the work is so toxic. She was as pro-sex-work as you can be when she first started five years ago. It's majority trauma and I have to hear the stories every day. The men who drive by want to cum as fast as possible with as little damage to their pocketbook as possible. So they drive in, maybe critique her appearance, say, "tits" or "ass" (usual…

My best friend is a cam model and could really use therapy, but she has no insurance. What cam site provides therapy?

My friend works for MFC, and is a "contractor", not an employee.

Re: Under the skin of OnlyFans

#363
I just want to call this out:

> But in January, a hacker seized control of [Tina Bean's] account, blackmailed her for $150 and uploaded streams of IS terror videos.

This is complete bullshit. And continues to worsen.

What's the fix? How do we prevent sockpuppets, impersonation, account seizures? What should we call this category of crime?

Stop using username & password credentials? Issue everyone key fobs? Use the secure enclaves in our phones (iOS, Android)?

--

Repeating myself: One of my coworkers passed and their Facebook profile got pwned. And there was no recourse. I'm still so angry about this I could just spit.

My family has been doing eldercare. The predation is just terrible. It's an industry. And the people targeted have zero ability to protect themselves.

Of course, at some point I'll also become the prey.

--

PS-

FWIW, I'm trying to figure out how to advocate for a fix.

I've made some pathetic attempts to draft a position paper, problem statement.

Next step would be draft model legislation. Then start shopping it around.

My first motivating "use case" is prevent profiles on DoorDash, Yelp etc from being seized by imposters. So do something like require those profile hosting services to link to IRL licenses. Most every trade has some kind of licensing and credentialing authority. Restaurants, nail salons, health care providers, etc.

Ideas?

Re: Under the skin of OnlyFans

#364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very interesting. There are so many things Id like to say. c) Was this done as blackmail? There is a somewhat common dating site scam where someone gets you to friend them on FB, and then to sext with them-- then they threaten to send the material to your FB friends. I'd imagine OF girls would almost be a captive audience for this. --- While I find OF personally distasteful, I realize that I paid for sex the old fash…

> c) Was this done as blackmail? There is a somewhat common dating site scam where someone gets you to friend them on FB, and then to sext with them-- then they threaten to send the material to your FB friends. I'd imagine OF girls would almost be a captive audience for this. No, it wasn't blackmail. The creator never received any messages from the fan that went nuclear (they only know it was a 'fan' since they had t…

stalkers are a weird lot.

I got one once by posting a single comment on an internet forum. I like to use aliases (thankfully) so all he could do is burn that one alias. They started following me around on different topics to continue the conversation.

My wife had a guy who would randomly show up at her work, house, friends, stores... He confused that they were in a band together that somehow she would want to hook up with him.

For this case some of these people think they have a relationship with the other end. They get emotionally attached but when they realize it is not going to be what they want they become unglued. It does not take much to set them off.

Re: Under the skin of OnlyFans

#365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gender relations becoming gameified and being turned into monetary micro-transactions is not a net win for society. Women debasing themselves and selling their body to appeal to an army of lonely simps that take refuge in a simulated relationship that is emotionally exploitative is not the kind of healthy pair-bonding I wish for my kids. It is socially corrosive. > Have you considered the alternative that this is not…

Thee wouldn't be a demise, it would just be a different kind of society. Males are expendable for most of society, in earlier centuries, they would die from warfare, diseases, working in high risk professions and so on. The current society we are in where we expect or desire pair bonding for life with an exclusive mate is rather new and unstable. Lost of women would be quite fine with a harem like system where they s…

> Thee wouldn't be a demise, it would just be a different kind of society.

You mean the kind in which we live right now, and where birth rates are well below replacement values?

> The current society we are in where we expect or desire pair bonding for life with an exclusive mate is rather new and unstable.

This is wrong. Stable pair bonds are a feature of nearly all advanced societies. The reasons are game theoretic.

Re: Under the skin of OnlyFans

#366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m sorry for your wife. However, I think it’s dangerous to shape the conversation about sex work solely around such cases. A person from my old flat share was a nurse on a terminal cancer ward for mostly children. > 90% of the patients died. They burned out within two years on the job. My aunt had to quit her job as hospital nurse because it physically ruined her body. She’s still suffering from that, decades later.…

> I believe that making sex work illegal and driving it back underground is not helping that conversation. I never indicated either of these would be solutions. I don't believe elevating sex work to a pedestal in the cultural consciousness is right or ethical. That is primarily what I am taking issue with. It can be lucrative but the toll on young women, often very young women, can be great. It's a damaging professio…

> It's a damaging profession both to its consumers and to its creators

With age and life experience, I'm actually finding it increadibly difficult to agree with this statement. Sex work might be damaging for many providers, that's for sure (although, as others mentioned, so are other professions deemed essential); but damaging for consumers, I don't know. If it were so bad, it wouldn't be "the oldest profession". (Male) society undoubtedly needs periodic release, and sex work is one of such valves.

Re: Under the skin of OnlyFans

#367
I wonder why this level of scrutiny is not applied to strip clubs and the local Hooters franchise. The same grift and mental issues on Only Fans is present in strip clubs and Hooters too.

Basically there's two sets of victims in these places. First, the girls are only learning one skillset. That is, how to identify marks who have money, and how to get that money in the least amount of time. Once they learn that skillset in their twenties, its very difficult for them to transition to an apprenticeship in any other profession, because the entry level in other jobs will never compare in earning potential to what they make with their sexual grift. Essentially they are mentally damaged forever and its difficult for them to become, for example, a nurse or a developer.

The second set of victims are the guys who are getting fleeced. Perhaps the word victim here is wrong. Maybe the right word is marks. The guys who participate in these transactions are mentally what one used to call "losers" but again I hate labels. Lets just call it what it is.

These are men, who for various reasons, are not able to attract the kind of female attention they want without entering into a monetary transaction with said females. That's very simple, and should be non-controversial to say. Just like we say, someone who goes to a restaurant enters into a monetary transaction for Chicken Vindaloo, because they aren't capable of getting the Vindaloo they want by using non-monetary means (i.e. cooking).

There's no value judgment, but guys who use strip clubs, Hooters, and Only Fans are basically screwing their brains up permanently. They think the kind of attention they get from pretty girls at these venues, is the kind of attention they "deserve". So their expectations in the real world become badly calibrated. Have you ever seen a fifty year old doofus hitting on 20 year olds in a bar, getting rejected hard, and being surprised? That's a habitual strip club client right there.

The other way their brains get screwed up is that these men hang around so many grifters that they think all women are grifters. I'm not going to get into George Bernard Shaws theory that all marriage is a grift, but I think we can all agree that the level of grift in the average marriage is much different and has a different effect on you then the kind of grift that happens in strip clubs and on Only Fans. Basically if you hang around strippers, you'll start to think every woman has a hand in your pocket.

It's very sad. It's kind of like when a kid is abused they start to mistrust all adults. Same thing. These men can become misogynists because their sample data has become so skewed.

Anyway, I'm' kind of sick of how media treats online grift as somehow creating a set of problems that wasn't already there. Go to any small town with poor economic prospects and there's some number of desperate young women who are training in the grift. And there's also some number of men who are the marks. Moving all of this online just makes it so more highly sought after people in both sides of the market have more opportunities. But the problems are the same no matter where the grift is happening.

Re: Under the skin of OnlyFans

#368
post #122
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A lot of sex workers overtly reinforce social behaviors towards women (sexualization and objectification among other things) in order to appeal to men, which hurts them in the long run. This is something that's really been bugging me when looking at Reddit's porn subs. There has been a really noticeable change in the last 2 years. Back then, a majority of the posters seemed to actually be amateurs getting their kic…

The titles on sites like pornhub are a lot worse. Sometimes I feel like they're automatically generated or something, with weird sexual fantasies that aren't even remotely in the video. It's become a bit of a meme, and it certainly has always been present but for example the incest stuff, it's just disturbing to me to the point where I greatly prefer browsing on Reddit just because the titles are more tame. Another c…

I'm turned off of the whole thing by how easy it is to end up watching something I would rather not, without knowing it.

For example, if you're just browsing for thumbnails that look good, and you click forward to the action, there's a decent chance you're unknowingly watching some kind of rape or exploitation scenario. Some are just silly, like stepmom's arm is stuck in the couch, but others are sleazy and many would be crimes in real life. I don't think such content should be censored, but it doesn't make a great fantasy for me, and I don't like the undercurrent of wondering if my engagement with whatever video I'm watching is contributing to some marketing drone saying, "The stepdad-punishing-teen-daughter-with-sex genre is trending, let's push it hard today!"

Another thing that vividly stuck in my mind was seeing a photo of an actress I recognized in a news headline: teen victim of car accident identified as 19-year-old runaway. The reason it stuck in my mind was the realization that I had been jerking off to her videos for easily four years, maybe longer. Such a thing shouldn't be shocking. If people will obtain forged proof of age documents to win Little League tournaments, they'll do it to make money, right? But that was pretty sobering and made it hard to look at young attractive women on my laptop without wondering how old they are and if maybe I should watch something else instead.

Don't get me wrong; I don't abstain completely. I've just developed a distaste that keeps me away a lot of the times when otherwise I would gladly partake.

Re: Under the skin of OnlyFans

#369
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think in general there are some pretty big costs that aren't fully understood to doing sex work, even outside of the social stigma of being found out by your friends and family, there are mental health costs that are often not talked about. A lot of sex workers overtly reinforce social behaviors towards women (sexualization and objectification among other things) in order to appeal to men, which hurts them in the l…

Can we please not use the term "sex worker" for people who do not face the vast majority of risks (health/physical, financial, legal-of-the-criminal-sort, and emotional) that someone who actually engages in sex with other people for money does? You (generally speaking) cannot get infected with STIs, pregnant, assaulted, raped, drugged, stabbed, murdered, convicted, jailed - for being a camgirl. You (generally speakin…

"Sex worker" is the correct term for both contact and non-contact erotic services and is absolutley the appropriate term to use in this context.

The term was developed by sex workers explicitly for two purposes

1) To move away from the stigma of the term "prostitute"

2) To specifically include sex workers beyond escorts, including porn performers, camgirls, strippers etc

Re: Under the skin of OnlyFans

#370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gender relations becoming gameified and being turned into monetary micro-transactions is not a net win for society. Women debasing themselves and selling their body to appeal to an army of lonely simps that take refuge in a simulated relationship that is emotionally exploitative is not the kind of healthy pair-bonding I wish for my kids. It is socially corrosive. > Have you considered the alternative that this is not…

Thee wouldn't be a demise, it would just be a different kind of society. Males are expendable for most of society, in earlier centuries, they would die from warfare, diseases, working in high risk professions and so on. The current society we are in where we expect or desire pair bonding for life with an exclusive mate is rather new and unstable. Lost of women would be quite fine with a harem like system where they s…

> Thee wouldn't be a demise, it would just be a different kind of society.

You can argue that about literally anything. Everything is a matter of "a different society" once it's been accepted as the new default

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