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Students flee field as computer 'fad fades' (1987)

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Re: Students flee field as computer 'fad fades' (1987)

#361

Post by hughrr »

Isamu wrote: post #320
murgindrag wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've used them all the time in my career, but: 1. I did learn them well, and so I did use Laplace quite often in EE. 2. I jumped careers not into IT, but into tracks which leveraged both programming and a mathematical skill set. I'll mention: I'd be bored out of my wits doing just IT. The intersection of IT and math includes computer graphics, visualizations, robotics, machine learning, fintech, image processing, and…

Yeah, I have an EE degree but have only worked in software, and I have to say you can bring any kind of mathematics to the job if you have the imagination to find the places where it is an advantage. I sought areas where I could learn more math and use it to stand out from the crowd, albeit to mixed results, because if your manager can’t read your analysis paper he may not be impressed either, and sometimes the rever…

That’s exactly why I never used it. When you’re writing software you need to pretend your successor is an axe murderer.

Re: Students flee field as computer 'fad fades' (1987)

#362

Post by hughrr »

the_only_law wrote: post #327
hughrr wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there’s anything I’ve learned it is that you should always make your own mistakes. Your parent’s mistakes don’t even make sense any more 30-40 years down the line. My father pushed me into EE. I burned 5 years in industry being paid crap and then discovered it was actually a fairly low paying profession in the UK. Ended up supporting a bunch of Sun machines for other EEs which was more fun. So i learned Perl one w…

> I burned 5 years in industry being paid crap and then discovered it was actually a fairly low paying profession in the UK I was absolutely dumbfounded when I looked up engineering salaries in the UK. I mean, even in the US, I don't consider most engineering fields particularly high paying, but the UK is something else.

Oh yes it’s absolutely awful. One of my former peers is working in China now because they pay better!

Re: Students flee field as computer 'fad fades' (1987)

#363

Post by murgindrag »

Isamu wrote: post #320
murgindrag wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've used them all the time in my career, but: 1. I did learn them well, and so I did use Laplace quite often in EE. 2. I jumped careers not into IT, but into tracks which leveraged both programming and a mathematical skill set. I'll mention: I'd be bored out of my wits doing just IT. The intersection of IT and math includes computer graphics, visualizations, robotics, machine learning, fintech, image processing, and…

Yeah, I have an EE degree but have only worked in software, and I have to say you can bring any kind of mathematics to the job if you have the imagination to find the places where it is an advantage. I sought areas where I could learn more math and use it to stand out from the crowd, albeit to mixed results, because if your manager can’t read your analysis paper he may not be impressed either, and sometimes the rever…

I feel like there's an uncanny valley.

If you know a little bit of math, there's no benefit.

If you know enough math to jump to e.g. medical imaging, robotics, controls, simulators, image processing, ML, or similar, there's a ton of benefit.

An EE degree ought to give enough background to get there, although it may involve a year or two of study in a particular domain, and a side project to prove you have the skills.

Re: Students flee field as computer 'fad fades' (1987)

#367

Post by filoleg »

me_me_me wrote: post #353
jasonkester wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. I bet those vocal people would be happy to explain in detail what they did to get those jobs. It’s not easy, and you may need to actually go to the place where those jobs are. But each of those companies will hire thousands of people at those compensation level in the next year. And the people they hire were in no way exceptional (or different to you) before they started down the path to getting where they are…

I am sure if I only buy their book on how to get those jobs I will get one.

No need to buy "their book on how to get those jobs" or anything like that.

To get the interview, you just gotta have some years of experience, some side projects, and that's about it. If you went to a top tier school or something like that, you don't even need the years of experience. Getting an interview at those companies is the easy part, pretty much everyone I went to college with got an interview with one of those companies before graduating (and I didn't go to some super known ivy league college, it was just a pretty good public school in Georgia). The issue was that most people didn't pass those interviews.

To pass the interview, read up on systems design, read up on algorithms, practice some leetcode/hackerrank/etc., and you are good to go. All of those resources can be easily obtained for free. There is no secret or trick to any of that.

Re: Students flee field as computer 'fad fades' (1987)

#368

Post by cableshaft »

robinduckett wrote: post #193
donatj wrote: post #49

I don’t hear much about it these days, but circa 2004 when I was going into computer science I had multiple teachers and a guidance counselor warn me that all the jobs would be going to India and tell me I should pursue something else. This seemed to be very much the prevailing wisdom of the time. I pursued it anyway as it was my passion. I was one of five students in my program that had been a huge multi-campus prog…

My parents to this day ask me when I will be getting a *real* job. I make three times what my dad makes in a year.

Surprised you don't say right back, "When are you getting a real job?"

Re: Students flee field as computer 'fad fades' (1987)

#369

Post by cableshaft »

api wrote: post #334
donatj wrote: post #49

I don’t hear much about it these days, but circa 2004 when I was going into computer science I had multiple teachers and a guidance counselor warn me that all the jobs would be going to India and tell me I should pursue something else. This seemed to be very much the prevailing wisdom of the time. I pursued it anyway as it was my passion. I was one of five students in my program that had been a huge multi-campus prog…

The failure of software outsourcing is really quite interesting, especially since telework is working decently well. That seems to eliminate the “remote work doesn’t work” objection. It was not for lack of trying. The management class pushed it very hard. There are still many firms trying but it’s not really panning out. From what I have seen the answer is that good software engineers are globally scarce and the good…

Also a lot of the good software engineers in India end up relocating elsewhere, like the US, to get better pay. I've worked with a lot of really talented Indian software engineers, and some really terrible Indian developers (I hesitate to call them engineers).

All of the talented ones had relocated and were living in the US. I'm sure there are some talented software engineers that stay in India also, I just never end up working with them (probably because the companies I worked for were trying to save a few bucks by outsourcing to begin with, and went with the lowest bidder).

Re: Students flee field as computer 'fad fades' (1987)

#370

Post by pomian »

analog31 wrote: post #325
Tycho wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is EE so bad? On the surface it looks like a degree with a strong grounding in mathematics, exposure to programming, the discipline of engineering, and a diverse range of applications across industry. It kind of seems like the ideal degree if you want to hire someone. I'm always baffled when I hear stories like this.

I have some hypotheses. Note my degree is in physics, perhaps a similar situation though not as widespread. There are a number of things happening. Most engineers in all disciplines lose their math ability after graduating. The workplace itself allows this to happen: They get so busy with regular design work that they forget their math and theory. A lot of the analysis work is handled by their CAD tools. The work tha…

Brilliant comment. It applies to most engineering, or scientific fields. Develop, discover, once. Maintain or improve forever. Explains the massive difference in demand for truly imaginative innovative thinkers, and the maintainers. Come to think of it, other fields too.
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