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Hire-to-fire at Amazon India?

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Re: Hire-to-fire at Amazon India?

#361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Current AWS engineer here, can confirm. I'm absolutely broken. I'd second the point about the manager and pre-existing conditions making up the job. It's not clear to me if it's endemic, these are big orgs with teams run very differently. That being said, the on-call sucks. It's really awful, and something I've never seen before. It's also typically the primary cause of team churn for people in my org. This varies, a…

I’m sorry you’re having a rough time. Hang in there, and if you move on, good luck!

I’m genuinely curious how saying good luck gets down voted. Fuck the HN crowd for this shit.

Re: Hire-to-fire at Amazon India?

#362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but I know of other teams who would have no issues in taking in a fresh college grad, making them do work for 6-12 months and then just randomly putting them on PIP. stack ranking came up in another thread a few days ago and this practice of forced attrition seems like just another way to do the same thing. I thought it was understood that this kind of structure just incentivizes internecine fighting and politics ov…

> Mind-boggling that there still exists upper management that thinks otherwise. Far too many Harvard MBAs calling the shots, I guess?

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Re: Hire-to-fire at Amazon India?

#363
post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I contrast it with excellent experiences at Sun, Motorola, Apple and others over the past 20+ years, where in some cases I had very high engineering ranks with fabulous results, in very well run and just healthy orgs. I can understand how junior devs end up in these positions for a while and stay on the ride, but what is making someone with your level of experience you stick to Amazon? Is the compensation that good…

Compensation seems good, but I'm there because I got fooled and plan to quit very soon, when graciously (not screw team-mates) feasible, because it's just a waste of time that could be spent helping positive efforts in healthy orgs.

I have felt that way before, but it’s better just to quit ASAP. It’s the company that’s making your teammates suffer and their also better off just quitting.

Re: Hire-to-fire at Amazon India?

#364

Former AWS engineer here. I worked on a pretty critical product in AWS (big AWS service with lots of traffic) and I can safely say that it's totally up to your manager and pre-existing conditions which make up the job. My manager was great as a person but would always lack in my career-oriented goals (bigger projects, promotions, etc) But what really sucked for me was the pre-existing conditions. Our on-call was pret…

I don’t get this. In this market, if you’re good, why take a job with any on-call work? It’s thankless, shitty work. If you can deliver features, that’s good enough to get paid extremely well at other Amazon-scale companies with dedicated SRE teams. What’s making you stay?

The answer is 1) many people at Amazon like me have inferior intellects and everyone knows it, so it’s harder to get a better job and 2) there are many services that don’t have dozens of sev2s per day because ultimately you do own what you build. It’s a big reason why Lambda is used to heavily internally now - we cut out a class of operational scaling issues out by design.

Re: Hire-to-fire at Amazon India?

#365
Current AWS engineer here. I've been working here for ~2 years in a pretty critical service, in the Dublin office

Back when I joined the company, you could already find dozens of online reviews talking about a toxic culture and awful management practices. I was about to turn down the offer because of that. 2 years later, I have to admit there have been good and bad moments, but if I had to make the decision again today, knowing everything that I know after all this time, I would 100% still accept the offer.

Amazon improved my life and my career in ways I would have never expected. When I look back, it really seems unbelievable to think that I've improved so much as a software engineer in that period of time. And not only on the technical side, but also on aspects like writing, caring about customers or thinking about operations: you realize that work is much more than coding or shipping new features. Besides, from its culture I've learned processes or ways of thinking that have incredibly helped me even on my personal life, like "one/two way doors", "working backwards" or "mechanisms over good intentions"

I'm not going to pretend that all the other comments are lies and that all of that did not happen. Obviously there's a lot of people with really bad experiences at the company. But what I'm trying to say is that Amazon is a huge company, and you can find both great and awful experiences. If you're considering applying here, or even accepting an offer, don't get discouraged just because here you find mostly bad opinions.

In case it helps, something that convinced me to join when I already had the offer and had to make the decision was talking with my future manager. I directly mentioned that I found reviews about a toxic culture and wanted to know his feeling about it. His answer was simply "Look, I cannot talk about other orgs, or even other teams. What I can say is that in my team we really try to create an inclusive and healthy environment, and that we really care for each other". He could have just lied and said that all the reviews were fake, that the culture was great and that all those problems did not exist, but he was honest and admitted that he could only talk about the areas that he knew about.

To me that was a good reminder that even companies like Amazon are formed by normal people, and that while there will be people that only care about themselves and getting promotions, there are also some that really care about making the company a great place to work

Re: Hire-to-fire at Amazon India?

#366
post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This works when the company is hot, but eventually it's not. When the last time you saw HP, or IBM positively on a resume? Big companies breed big company problems that can leave engineers poorly equipped for the rapid delivery world of startups/scaleups.

"Big companies breed big company problems that can leave engineers poorly equipped for the rapid delivery world of startups/scaleups. " Why are big company employees not suited (or trained for?) to startup like environments?

There are several reasons big company experience doesn't translate.

1. Legacy tech, "cool" big companies have the latest stacks but over time these stacks become old and the dev practices atrophy. The biggest cases of this I've seen are engineers unable/unwilling to do their own QA as its "not their job". Or unwilling to adapt to new technology the startup may be using.

2. Politics: Big tech companies have major politics leading to pathological "not our problem" conditions. Efficient and successful startups/scale-ups need to minimize politics, and some employees from big tech companies will have found this to be one of their primary skills.

3. Ambiguity/Timeline constraints/dealing with crap: At a big tech company everyone is expected to be at the top of their game and the company rarely faces deadlines that are not self-imposed. An engineer may expect 100% test coverage, crystal clear product requirements, and no risk of failure. Dealing with sub-optimal conditions is common in startups/high growth companies.

4. Definition of success: A big company may strongly value marginal contributions as prized wins. Shaving ms off of a frequent call can drive real monetary improvements when the company has hundreds of millions of customers. Making engineers marginally more productive has huge benefits when you have 50k+ engineers. Startups often just don't care about these things and simply won't value the skills necessary for this work in most cases.

On the flip side there are great engineers/managers who learned what made the big company successful and how to navigate internal obstacles. These employees are likely to be gold to a startup, but they are also gold to a well capitalized company with vastly more data on just how effective they are than a startup has. Odds are, startups are interviewing/hiring the employees the big companies don't care about - something the hiring firm often implicitly knows.

Re: Hire-to-fire at Amazon India?

#367

I interviewed with Amazon and Facebook in the Spring/Summer of 2020. The difference was night and day. Amazon felt like I was part of a huge cattle herd. The recruiter contacted me and told me they needed to hire a bunch of people in my area. I was immediately given a course of study, link to common LeetCode questions and told I had a couple of weeks. That fine. I enjoy solving puzzles. Facebook felt VERY different.…

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Re: Hire-to-fire at Amazon India?

#368
post #72

An important lesson I've learned is to ask in the interviews "how is employee performance evaluated?" If the response is blather about 360 peer review, be wary. Also scan all available information about if they perform any stack ranking. I worked at a place where managers would bring in other people just so they could meet their "must fire" quotas but keep their existing teams intact. I left shortly thereafter. An or…

360 peer reviews are such bullshit. I've seen it happen where strong developers on a team of strong developers stagnate at the same level for years while mediocre developers surrounded by terrible developers get promoted. It all comes down to who's evaluating you and who you're in good with. It has nothing at all to do with how good you actually are.

What is 360 peer review?

Re: Hire-to-fire at Amazon India?

#369
post #223

I worked at Amazon years ago (2010-2012) on the retail website search navigation. I didn't like it, but it was nowhere near as bad as this hyperbolic post. Joining Amazon was the best thing I could have done with my career at that stage in my life. I learned a ton! But the culture does grind you down, especially when your alternatives are much more cushy.

I didn’t get any cushier offers out of undergrad and have worked at Amazon since - do you think that reflects poorly on me? I self harm sometimes because many people think it does…

Re: Hire-to-fire at Amazon India?

#370

I interviewed with Amazon and Facebook in the Spring/Summer of 2020. The difference was night and day. Amazon felt like I was part of a huge cattle herd. The recruiter contacted me and told me they needed to hire a bunch of people in my area. I was immediately given a course of study, link to common LeetCode questions and told I had a couple of weeks. That fine. I enjoy solving puzzles. Facebook felt VERY different.…

FWIW, the FB recruiter I spoke with also sent me Leetcode links. But the rest of the process was one of the best interview experiences I had, for a company of this scale. Not sure how well FB takes care of its employees, but they sure take good care of candidates.
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