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Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

dolphin-emu.org

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Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they do have a point though. If Apple's primary concern was security, they would be approaching this from a fundamentally different perspective; their current solution is a pretty dubious stopgap that bridges "human consent" and "your app". A fundamentally secure approach would ultimately let the user audit and manually control their API interfaces to prevent abuse, instead of just hoping Apple has your best…

Many of Apple’s “security” policies are fundamentally editorial rather than technical restrictions. How do you propose that such editorial policies be enforced? For example: an app which targets children and asks them to supply personal information. Similarly, Apple’s new, much-lauded anti-tracking policy does have a technical component to it, but it would be easy enough for motivated developers to get around it. All…

>Right now the App Store policies are able to nudge developers towards pro-consumer behaviours.

Yes, and they can also nudge us to pro-Apple business model behaviours such as direct payment instead of ad funding or force us to mislead consumers into paying higher prices than are available elsewhere.

They can also enforce random cultural biases such as "no porn" and threaten our human and civil rights as a side-effect of banning side-loading. In other cases they help to protect our civil rights.

So that's the dilemma. Apple can make arbitrary rules for arbitrary reasons, sometimes helping us, sometimes hurting us. Taking away Apple's right to make those arbitrary rules would allow other companies to impose their own rules without giving users a real choice.

One way or another, users and small developers are left with very little choice and very little freedom.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried notarizing, but gave up after 2 weeks of trying. I used to offer an app that wrapped an entirely java-based (shipped with its own JavaSE JRE) app within an Apple Script launcher. I used to be able to sign it, but the notarization tool simply won't accept my app's bundle. So had to drop it

Please consider shipping it unnotarized. I'd always rather have the option to allow an app through Gatekeeper than to not have a Mac version be available at all.

At the moment I have settled to publishing a version that only works on Apple Silicon devices (via iOS compatibility where I use translated bytecode). I will think hard about this, perhaps I will end up doing as you suggested :-)

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We’ve known for decades that RISC was the “right” design, but x86 was so far ahead of everyone else that switching architectures was completely infeasible All the experts I listened or read to, they told that instruction set doesn't matter and it is the insignificant thing. The part that matters is branch and data prediction, and caching. Also, even intel transforms an instruction into RISC like microinstructions i…

> All the experts I listened or read to, they told that instruction set doesn't matter and it is the insignificant thing. The part that matters is branch and data prediction, and caching. Also, even intel transforms an instruction into RISC like microinstructions internally. That's commonly repeated, but is a misunderstanding. Up until this point the difference was mostly that an x86 decoder took up more chip area, w…

"That's commonly repeated, but is a misunderstanding. Up until this point the difference was mostly that an x86 decoder took up more chip area, which given Intel's historical leads in process tech was no big deal to them. However now we're pushing chips to go wider than ever. Intel and AMD haven't been able to push past a 4x superscalar decoder. The instruction set just has too many potential chained dependencies to make it work. You'd have to slow cycle time or introduce additional pipeline stages such that performance in the net is worse. Meanwhile M1 decodes at 8x."

Thank you, for the love of Christ why people regurgitate this [half-truth about the decoders] consciously without realizing what they are implying is beyond me. Sure, in a world where Apple, ARM. et. al were slow, maybe it would be a relevant defense. But they're playing ball, and MS/Intel haven't been up to bat with it the home turf truly on the line for years. Likely Intel will shift over to fabs for third-parties, MS is fine without Windows were it to fade out to Chrome/MacOS in time (unlikey but still).

I think there's another variable on MS's end too. Paging. The M1 supports 16K paging/allocation unit sizes, right? I strongly suspect this + the ssd speed & memory compression plays a substantial role in the reported "differential use of ram" which probably also explains the swap rates that everyone keeps coping about (obviously, they are built this way for the most part). On performance though, I don't really put much stock in EclecticLightCo's thing on QoS, at least, not any stock in it as though I genuinely subscribe to the school of thought praising Apple for perfecting heterogeneous core scheduling, which is really just a bit much.

And yeah, I went from 2020 x86 MBP to 2020 M1 MBA. Seamless, and I really haven't thought about emulation other than for instance the apparent memory usage that may be a bit more accentuated with Rosetta.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#364

I wonder if there are any gains to be had on the M1 because it uses shared memory between the CPU and GPU - much like the actual Gamecube architecture. From reading this blog, Gamecube games often made heavy usage of the memory-sharing capability of the hardware - which made emulation on PCs a performance challenge.

You most likely still need to do all the work to manage texture caches because first of all, you need to create texture objects in the host graphics api based on what's essentially just memory. On top of that, GC/Wii texture formats might be different from what the host can support.

From my understanding it's not that useful for reading back either as the main bottleneck there is the fact that you need to sync gpu and cpu rather than transfer speed.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#365

As an aside I’m thinking voxel based games, and generally games that render via CPU should do really well with a native M1 port, right? (with scaling, because the 4.5k resolution gotta hurt :))

What do you mean by voxel based games?

And why would software rendering be fast on the M1?

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#366
post #253
post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So we're talking about the M1 Macs, not iPhones - Firefox on Mac is Gecko. So the comparison of Webkit (iOS FF) vs. Gecko (Mac FF) is the comparison being made as you can download both if you want.

W^X JIT seems to have been solved in Firefox in 2016. https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=W-XOR-E-... So that's not the specific blocker for Gecko on iOS.

W^X doesn't get you very far on iOS. Apps are not allowed to make pages executable at all.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#367

It's clear AS is a great advancement in general computing, but every piece like this reads as "the hardware is amazing, and it's totally worth it to work around these arbitrary software restrictions". This performance would've been available on iPads years ago if it wasn't for Apple's blanket ban on JIT and the likes. Apple is one of those companies whose hardware I'd love to have if it wasn't for their software and…

The Write XOR Execute restriction discussed in the article is a security feature, and it’s greatly beneficial from a security standpoint. > Until I can run a proper version of Firefox on iPad FireFox for iOS works just fine. The Gecko vs WebKit difference doesn’t really matter in practice. If you want general purpose computing, just get a Mac. You can run Firefox and any other program you’d like. It would be great if…

The engine difference does matter, because it prevents other vendors from making iOS a better platform for web apps. It's in Apple's interest to keep web apps an inferior experience to App Store apps:

https://infrequently.org/2021/04/progress-delayed/

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#368
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No the issue on ios isn't that W^X is enforced, its that you can't mark a page that was writable as executable (whereas W^X just implies that a page can't be both writable and executable at the same time ). Firefox has been W^X compliant by default since 2016 as its considered more secure in general.

Ah I see. The iOS restriction makes sense, even though it's more aggressive.

> makes sense

So if it didn’t (have this restriction), you’d be confused as to why? Or are you just praising a high-status decision for being high-status?

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#369
post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am well aware of the sizes of the stores. So you compared the absolute numbers, knowing it would be misleading. > Are you aware that the relative amount of malware is is not merely proportionally less? You wouldn’t expect them to be merely proportionally less. You’d expect malware authors to put their efforts where the money is. > People using an iOS device can never be sure they are installing the secure app the…

> So you compared the absolute numbers, knowing it would be misleading. I gave the absolute numbers thinking you were smart enough to convert 0 proportionally. I certainly didn't know that it would confuse you. > You’d expect malware authors to put their efforts where the money is. That would be a good point if the stores were incompatible. However, it is possible to write an app that you can publish to the Amazon Ap…

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Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#370
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> many of us don’t want our iPads or iPhones to be like our computers And many of us do . I would never buy a locked-down piece of hardware like that. But I don't think it matters either way what either side wants, because it's what Apple wants that matters. They want to keep their walled garden's walls air tight, and there are apparently enough people that are OK living in that garden that it works. I'm positive tha…

>I would never buy a locked-down piece of hardware like that Do you own an Xbox or Playstation? Do you own a SmartTV?

No, no, and kinda. My TV is supposedly "smart" in that it has Netflix built in, but that functionality isn't used and can't be used as the TV is blocked at the firewall. It's as open as my old CRT, I suppose.
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