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Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

reuters.com

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Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#361

Post by richyliu »

woeirua wrote: post #184

Everyone should take some time now to learn about Tether, the high likelihood that it is in fact a Ponzi scheme, and that it poses a big systemic risk to the crypto exchanges and therefore the markets themselves [1]. People have been sounding the alarm on Tether for a long time now, but we’re finally getting some hard evidence now to back the allegations [2]. Don’t say you weren’t warned. [1] https://mobile.twitter.c…

Here's the specific thread from smdiehl talking about how tethers are not actually worth $1 as they claim [1].

[1] https://mobile.twitter.com/smdiehl/status/139366981222046516...

Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#362

Post by matheusmoreira »

Havoc wrote: post #132

I mean anyone sane was expecting a trace back at some stage after the wild couple of months we just had. Predicting crashes isn’t hard. Predicting the timing thereof on the other hand…

Yeah. I was expecting a correction too but not so soon. Looks like Musk's greenwashing tweets started it...

Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#363

Post by kllrnohj »

vmception wrote: post #358
pradn wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't seem like anyone believes cryptos are supposed to be currencies any more. All the talk around them is around them being a new, exciting, and potentially very lucrative investment class. If you go to Coinbase's front page, you see that you can buy and sell them, like you can with Robinhood. It's not trying to be a PayPal. The currency-ness does serve an important purpose. It helps bring in investment for th…

USDC, DAI, USDT are all used more than ever, orders of magnitude more People dont have to talk about them as currencies because they just work No different than cellular reception in an underground subway, you dont have to think about it anymore

> People dont have to talk about them as currencies because they just work

Well that's not really true, it was headline news when Tesla started accepting crypto payments (and then headline news when they stopped).

Stores accepting crypto still makes the news, it's not common and not something that "just works." But what you can do is at least semi-reliably convert between crypto & things that stores do accept using the various conversions you listed. But you still do have to convert from crypto to a traditional currency to use it as a currency.

Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#364

Post by cableshaft »

vmception wrote: post #358
pradn wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't seem like anyone believes cryptos are supposed to be currencies any more. All the talk around them is around them being a new, exciting, and potentially very lucrative investment class. If you go to Coinbase's front page, you see that you can buy and sell them, like you can with Robinhood. It's not trying to be a PayPal. The currency-ness does serve an important purpose. It helps bring in investment for th…

USDC, DAI, USDT are all used more than ever, orders of magnitude more People dont have to talk about them as currencies because they just work No different than cellular reception in an underground subway, you dont have to think about it anymore

Yep, used USDC just last night to buy a new computer, just before this big crash happened, thankfully (since I converted some crypto to do it). Actually using that for its intended purpose.

Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#365

Post by ilaksh »

pradn wrote: post #292
kllrnohj wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin & Ether are both down -40% from a week to a month ago. Both of those are, in theory, large enough that investors "letting off some steam" shouldn't move them that much. If $SPY dropped 40% we'd all call it a crash. This isn't that different. Also unlike the stock market, crypto is under the delusion of being a viable currency. If USD or Euro dropped even 20% we'd start questioning if it's a recession, much le…

It doesn't seem like anyone believes cryptos are supposed to be currencies any more. All the talk around them is around them being a new, exciting, and potentially very lucrative investment class. If you go to Coinbase's front page, you see that you can buy and sell them, like you can with Robinhood. It's not trying to be a PayPal. The currency-ness does serve an important purpose. It helps bring in investment for th…

Well.. yes and no. A lot of people unfortunately never really understood the real concept of a cryptocurrency as a payment mechanism and instead believe they are for getting rich quick.

That's the business Coinbase is in.

Now, if you are using cryptocurrency for payments you don't need Coinbase.

PayPal, since you mention it, knows that cryptocurrency is going to make it's business model obsolete as soon as it is widely deployed. That is why they pretend to allow you to keep and use Bitcoin on their platform.

Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#366

Post by mam3 »

ProjectArcturis wrote: post #56

Bitcoin is the ultimate, purely financial object. It has no revenues or profits. The supply is fixed -- unlike, say, gold, where high prices mean people will eventually start digging mines, BTC supply is entirely price-inelastic. The only thing that determines BTC price is demand. And over the past 13 years, we've seen reflexivity at work: The price has gone up, so more people want it, so the price goes up further, a…

1/ a lot of people really DO believe in decentralized currency

2/ a lot of people are acutally using it as a store of value / currency: from drug dealers to people in states with failed economy such as venezuela or turkey, to chinese people wnating to somehow escape the system.

3/ btc is a gateway currency to other more useful currencies surch as eth / monero / zcash

4/ How is the "no profits / revenue" makes any sense for pricing a financial object in 2021 where amazon for example literally never ever gave a dividend to the shareholder, meaning, whatever you say, that people holding amazon stock are doing it ONLY for speculation of the "perceived value" of the price ?

In the end, btc is not that much more a "baseless asset" than most of the stock market currently.

Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#367

Post by chewz »

jmacd wrote: post #11

As an outside observer, who has no crypto holdings at all, but is very deeply invested in the public stock market with a heavy weight on technology stocks... this doesn't look like a crash to me at all. It just looks like some steam being let off and old investors cash out and new investors get more comfortable with how much and where to invest. I consider crypto currency as it is to be an elaborate Ponzi scheme (per…

I agree (and I am also Btc-neutral).

This looks more like rapid forced positions liquidation then crypto crahs - as it spilled over to other recent hedge funds favourites (like CO2 ETS).

Another Archegos perhaps?

Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#368

Post by redisman »

kllrnohj wrote: post #26
jmacd wrote: post #11

As an outside observer, who has no crypto holdings at all, but is very deeply invested in the public stock market with a heavy weight on technology stocks... this doesn't look like a crash to me at all. It just looks like some steam being let off and old investors cash out and new investors get more comfortable with how much and where to invest. I consider crypto currency as it is to be an elaborate Ponzi scheme (per…

Bitcoin & Ether are both down -40% from a week to a month ago. Both of those are, in theory, large enough that investors "letting off some steam" shouldn't move them that much. If $SPY dropped 40% we'd all call it a crash. This isn't that different. Also unlike the stock market, crypto is under the delusion of being a viable currency. If USD or Euro dropped even 20% we'd start questioning if it's a recession, much le…

Look at the full chart for 2021 though. Crypto went completely bonkers for no apparent reason this year so a correction isn't too surprising.

Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#369

Post by andrewaylett »

celticninja wrote: post #268
Theodores wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Abductive reasoning: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_test So you have the non-existent assets, bag holding, difficulty getting out and the promise of above average returns. If I put my money into my saving account then I can get out at a clearly stated time, there is no expectation apart from very little interest and I am reasonably sure that the government will bail out the bank if the bank fails. In between ther…

But you can get out of bitcoin at any time by selling it so it fails that test.

But selling Bitcoin is _exactly_ an older investor being paid out by a newer investor.

IMO it's Bitcoin in combination with Tether that's the actual Ponzi. Unfortunately unlikely to unwind until and unless people start needing to redeem Tether rather than selling it on.

Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#370

Post by Ekaros »

woeirua wrote: post #184

Everyone should take some time now to learn about Tether, the high likelihood that it is in fact a Ponzi scheme, and that it poses a big systemic risk to the crypto exchanges and therefore the markets themselves [1]. People have been sounding the alarm on Tether for a long time now, but we’re finally getting some hard evidence now to back the allegations [2]. Don’t say you weren’t warned. [1] https://mobile.twitter.c…

Is tether even a Ponzi scheme? My understanding is that returns are 0. And it's "pegged" to dollar, so you can't even make any money by buying it...

Ponzi scheme would mean that some investors were getting returns...

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