Tesla Q1 2021 Results • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#361

Post by Reason077 » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 9:34 AM UTC

bildung wrote: post #341

Reason077 wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does Tesla lose market share while achieving record (+ 109%) sales? The market certainly hasn’t been growing faster than Tesla has.

Because the EV market grew much faster, e.g. +260% for Germany (from 108k in 2019 to 395k in 2020).

Sure, but market share should be considered as a percentage of the overall car market, not just electric sales.

It's unrealistic to expect that Tesla would continue to dominate the EV market forever. It is realistic to expect that Tesla will become a significant player in car sales globally.

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#362

Post by raverbashing » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 9:35 AM UTC

lumost wrote: post #224

cs702 wrote: post #132

Whatever you may think of Tesla and Musk, you have to agree that they've accomplished something rather incredible. Few would have thought this possible not that long ago: * 185K vehicle deliveries in Q1, +109% versus a year ago [a] * 2.7K supercharger stations, +41% versus a year ago * 24.5K supercharger connectors, +44% versus a year ago * 92 MW of solar generation deployed in Q1, +163% versus a year ago * 445 MWh o…

I had to look it up but for reference in Q1 2021 the big auto makers delivered the following. Ford: 521,334 GM: 642,250 Toyota: 2.46 million VW: 2.5 million If Tesla holds up they'll be larger than Ford in 2 years and be the largest automaker in the world in 4 years.

Ford has being down for the past years, closing factories worldwide. I think their focus now is on the SUV/Pickup trucks and exiting other markets.

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#363

Post by oyagci » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 9:36 AM UTC

mdavid626 wrote: post #320

So in 2021/Q1 no Model S/X were produced and only 2030 were sold (-83%). What happened?

They have refreshed the Model S and X. So no cars produced while updating production lines

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#364

Post by iainmerrick » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 9:37 AM UTC

Angostura wrote: post #358

LordDragonfang wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the European market the range advantage might not be a big deal, but it's a major selling point in the American market. Probably the biggest concern I hear from people about going electric-only is range anxiety - the notion that they might need to drive a long distance on a whim and worry they might be "stranded" with no battery, regardless of the actual likelihood of that. With America's generally poor public tra…

I think even in the European market it may be a factor. It's not uncommon to drive somewhere on summer holidays, I'm in the UK and sometimes drive across France or down to Spain for summer hols - or skiing holidays. It's stupid that this is a consideration when buying a car, I know. But it certainly has a chilling effect when I think about our over-night drives to get to the Alps for a Saturday morning.

Buy an electric car for everyday stuff, hire a car for holidays?

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#365

Post by vardump » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 9:39 AM UTC

xkjkls wrote: post #277

vardump wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not trying to defend Musk, but his goals are orders of magnitudes harder than what Jobs had to face. Musk is on a mission to Mars and is scared of anything that might delay his ultimate goal.

Maybe, but we shouldn't defend people's behavior based on their goals. Musk has a massive habit of either stretching the truth, deceiving, outright lying -- whatever you want to call it -- that Jobs didn't. It's a very important distinction. If a kid growing up in technology asked me which one should they try to emulate more, I would say Steve Jobs without a doubt. There are far less moral failings you have to defend…

I think Musk will always be a controversial figure.

"Musk has a massive habit of either stretching the truth, deceiving, outright lying -- whatever you want to call it -- that Jobs didn't."

How do we know it's not his honest belief? That said, I don't think anyone takes (or should take) Musk's promises keeping a straight face when it comes to delivery timelines.

I doubt there's anyone who genuinely thinks he is not a major forward pushing force in cleantech and space industry.

I believe, in the long run, especially cleantech is likely to be a very important component battling climate change and local pollution. This could very well be about humanity's survival. I'm not saying Musk is somehow single-handedly responsible for this or even that his concrete contribution has been much yet, but what I am saying is that he's showing the industry a way for all this not only to be doable but to also be profitable. And that's the only way I see cleantech going forward — profit.

In even longer run we really need to get into space and learn how to live there. Both for not having all of the eggs in the same basket, but also to develop true steady state recycling.

Now whether or not Musk delivers on these remains to be seen. At least so far he has been one of the greatest hopes. Not the only one, mind you, but he really has pushed space industry and EV industry forward.

That said, I fully agree immoral behavior should not be tolerated.

How do we define how much achievement discount we should apply based on other behavior? Should the negative always totally eclipse the positive?

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#366

Post by ryzvonusef » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 9:43 AM UTC

stiray wrote: post #266

cs702 wrote: post #132

Whatever you may think of Tesla and Musk, you have to agree that they've accomplished something rather incredible. Few would have thought this possible not that long ago: * 185K vehicle deliveries in Q1, +109% versus a year ago [a] * 2.7K supercharger stations, +41% versus a year ago * 24.5K supercharger connectors, +44% versus a year ago * 92 MW of solar generation deployed in Q1, +163% versus a year ago * 445 MWh o…

(Bottom line. I am a consumer that pays money for the best product. And I will buy the best product, not the hype. I dont understand why all the downvoting, you are doing it every day when you go to a market? Do you worship John Harvey Kellogg when eating the corn flakes? Probably not.) Ok, now here is where I object. Musk hasnt done anything incredible/remarkable, YOU have done it, the STOCK INVESTORS have done it,…

Jesus, no one is asking you to S.elon's.C, but your assertion was that Musk was not responsible for the explosion of electric cars (heh), whereas he really was.

----

> Do you worship John Harvey Kellogg when eating the corn flakes

I don't live in a breakfast-cereal eating culture, so I have no clue about which cereal is better, but there is no denying that Kellogg invented the cornflakes market, just like Musk did with the eCar.

-Are there better cereals/eCars? Duh.

-Were both Kellogg and Musk absolute weirdos? Yes.

-Should their products be the default choice in their sector? No, competition spurs growth.

-Does that change the fact that they created their markets? NO. They did, and they deserve acknowledgment for that.

----

By all means, buy a competitor product, i don't give a damn, we don't even have regular electricity flow in my country, EV of any kind are a far dream.

But being anti-Musk does not a personality make, and frankly it's getting cringy at this point.

It just pollutes the comment stream and makes everyone's experience worse.

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#367

Post by vardump » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 9:43 AM UTC

wayeq wrote: post #256

xkjkls wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Musk is nearly a clone of Jobs in affect and attitude and reality distortion effect. Eh, Musk has more negative tendencies than Jobs, especially related to his public behavior and honesty. Whatever you might think of Jobs, whenever he issued a firm statement it came true. iPhones were always released on schedule. Musk is years late and many miles short on almost every product he announces. Full Self Driving was sup…

His COVID tweets almost certainly lead to people taking unnecessary risks and dying alone and intubated. Fuck Elon.

Hated those tweets. He did seem to realize his mistake, but not to be man enough to actually admit it.

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#368

Post by bildung » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 9:44 AM UTC

Reason077 wrote: post #361

bildung wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the EV market grew much faster, e.g. +260% for Germany (from 108k in 2019 to 395k in 2020).

Sure, but market share should be considered as a percentage of the overall car market, not just electric sales. It's unrealistic to expect that Tesla would continue to dominate the EV market forever. It is realistic to expect that Tesla will become a significant player in car sales globally.

> It's unrealistic to expect that Tesla would continue to dominate the EV market forever. It is realistic to expect that Tesla will become a significant player in car sales globally.

How could Tesla become a significant player in the overall market without being much more significant in the EV market, which is a small subset of the former?

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#369

Post by Corrado » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 9:47 AM UTC

3dee wrote: post #292

lumost wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had to look it up but for reference in Q1 2021 the big auto makers delivered the following. Ford: 521,334 GM: 642,250 Toyota: 2.46 million VW: 2.5 million If Tesla holds up they'll be larger than Ford in 2 years and be the largest automaker in the world in 4 years.

Right now Tesla is outperforming competition on three points: * 0-100km/h times * Range * Charging network I believe most people don't care about the 0-100 speed. And most people can live with a little less range. So this leaves the network as a selling point. I believe it depends on the country how important this is. For example in the Netherlands you can cross the whole country on one charge. So you don't need a ne…

> I believe most people don't care about the 0-100 speed.

You say that, but almost every single person I've given a ride to in my Model Y has come away from the acceleration portion of the trip amazed and wanting more. Older men, young kids, soccer moms, teenage girls, all get that breathy expression when you effortlessly pass someone on the expressway. And this is a Model Y, one of the slowest Tesla's on the market. A Model S P100D would have them cursing under their breath and pulling out their wallet; I know it did for me.

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#370

Post by Corrado » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 9:49 AM UTC

erikstarck wrote: post #298

3dee wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right now Tesla is outperforming competition on three points: * 0-100km/h times * Range * Charging network I believe most people don't care about the 0-100 speed. And most people can live with a little less range. So this leaves the network as a selling point. I believe it depends on the country how important this is. For example in the Netherlands you can cross the whole country on one charge. So you don't need a ne…

You forgot: * Software

I think the software component is truly underestimated. It's been said that Tesla is really a software company that happens to build cars, and I can believe it. I'm not sure that VW, GM, or Ford will ever be able to compete on the software front, they just don't have it in their DNA.

I kinda view it like Silicon Valley; there's nothing intrinsic about the specific place on the map that makes it a great place to develop software. But other places just can't seem to replicate it. I've heard talk of Silicon Alley in NYC but it doesn't seem to compare. I'm not sure it's possible to recreate SV somewhere else, just like I'm not sure it's possible to recreate Tesla inside GM.