Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities • Hacker News Board

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#361

Post by rtlfe » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 11:03 PM UTC

closeparen wrote: post #185

stfp wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it doesn't require major investments. It's really minor investments compared to other infrastructure projects. The issue is taking away even a tiny fraction of car space basically triggers some kind of political road rage.

Cycling is suited to distances of a few miles. Within a few miles of a sprawl house there are only other sprawl houses. The mix and layout of buildings and uses also needs to be overhauled so that putting reasonable numbers of hours/calories into a bike gets you somewhere useful.

Yes, single family zoning must be abolished. Doing so will cost governments no money and is among the most effective changes to improve housing affordability and climate change.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#362

Post by Ericson2314 » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 11:03 PM UTC

Yeah it's a bummer to see so much about electric cars in the Biden infrastructure proposal.

- Make driving miserable,do a carbon tax - do a carbon dividend - keep the infrastructure about good things like trains

A.k.a. planning for major centralized supply (public transit) and incentives for demand. There's no point directly funding electric car stuff because a) it is not good enough as pointed out, and b) it doesn't benefit from planning as much anyways.

I don't get why these things aren't more obvious :/ ...

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#363

Post by rtlfe » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 11:05 PM UTC

nitrogen wrote: post #336

dublinben wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US nearly 30 percent of trips are a mile or shorter, 40 percent are two miles or shorter and 50 percent are three miles or shorter.[0] These distances can be easily covered on foot or bike with minimal change in infrastructure. [0] https://www.bikeleague.org/content/national-household-travel...

Wouldn't those three mile or less trips usually be for transporting cargo that wouldn't fit on a bike?

I don't think "usually" is close to accurate. People go to work, restaurants, friends' homes, etc without transporting any cargo. Big grocery runs are maybe once a week.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#364

Post by rtlfe » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 11:07 PM UTC

vishnugupta wrote: post #236

stfp wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it doesn't require major investments. It's really minor investments compared to other infrastructure projects. The issue is taking away even a tiny fraction of car space basically triggers some kind of political road rage.

> But it doesn't require major investments. Having lived and cycled in Amsterdam to me it did seem like a major investment. Sure if one were to design a greenfield city then it’s not a big deal. But to pivot a car centric city to safely accommodate cyclists is a major change. The city residents have to go through the transition process which isn’t going to be fun. I’ve seen it done half ass way in India and US which…

Amsterdam in the 1960s was just as full of cars as US cities are today. Here's some video: https://www.reddit.com/r/Amsterdam/comments/d3484b/amsterdam...

If we start today and incorporate the lessons they've learned, it hopefully won't take us 60 years to get there.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#365

Post by uoaei » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 11:08 PM UTC

Electric vehicles do not eliminate anyone's carbon footprint. They only frontload it due to the extreme environmental costs of mining for battery materials, battery manufacturing, and transport.

This goes for electric cars, bikes, and even your little OneWheel.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#366

Post by zip1234 » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 11:08 PM UTC

vishnugupta wrote: post #236

stfp wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it doesn't require major investments. It's really minor investments compared to other infrastructure projects. The issue is taking away even a tiny fraction of car space basically triggers some kind of political road rage.

> But it doesn't require major investments. Having lived and cycled in Amsterdam to me it did seem like a major investment. Sure if one were to design a greenfield city then it’s not a big deal. But to pivot a car centric city to safely accommodate cyclists is a major change. The city residents have to go through the transition process which isn’t going to be fun. I’ve seen it done half ass way in India and US which…

Amsterdam had to figure it out the hard way. When they did it, nobody even knew what to do. Now that they have done the hard work, the patterns can be copied elsewhere. What I am talking about are the junction designs, bike path designs, etc. These need to be taught to every road engineer in the world.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#367

Post by causality0 » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 11:08 PM UTC

We also found that the average person who shifted from car to bike for just one day a week cut their carbon footprint by 3.2kg of CO₂ – equivalent to the emissions from driving a car for 10km, eating a serving of lamb or chocolate, or sending 800 emails

So I can offset my car's carbon footprint by reducing my meat and sweets consumption by five servings a week? Either something's fucky with that math or cars aren't nearly as bad as I thought.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#368

Post by imgabe » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 11:09 PM UTC

CabSauce wrote: post #10

That's great. Assuming the following: - Your commute is sufficiently short - You have facilities to shower and dress at work - You have sufficient time to shower and dress at work - You don't have to bring kids or sizable cargo - Weather is sufficiently good - You're sufficiently healthy

> - Your commute is sufficiently short

> - You have facilities to shower and dress at work

> - You have sufficient time to shower and dress at work

You can address these by planning where you live and work to make it so. These are not immutable facts of nature you have no control over. If your work doesn't have a shower, maybe a nearby gym does.

> - You don't have to bring kids or sizable cargo

There are solutions for transporting kids on bikes. Unless your job is to transport cargo, how often do you need to transport sizeable cargo? Most people are not bringing a refrigerator or something with them on their daily commute.

If the switch to biking only works for the 95% of people whose job doesn't require hauling around large pieces of equipment with them everywhere all the time, then that is still a huge win.

> - Weather is sufficiently good

Or your clothes are sufficiently good

> - You're sufficiently healthy

Bike every day and you will become healthy

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#369

Post by autokad » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 11:10 PM UTC

michael1999 wrote: post #228

TulliusCicero wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're minor investments practically, and major investments politically. As you say, for many motorists, giving up space on even some roads to cyclists is treated like some sort of war crime. There's very much of attitude of, "we can't just have a majority of the road space -- we need nearly all of it!"

It can be a real winner politically, depending on the electoral boundaries. Roads have such limited throughput that a new bike lane might inconvenience only a few hundred people in cars, while opening up the city to thousands of people on bikes. Once politicians figure out that calculation, it can go very quickly.

I think you got it backwards mate. your basically asking hundreds of thousands of cars to suffer in favor of a few hundred bicyclists. Most people who bike strangely think most people want to bike but just cant. most dont want to. as an aging nation, most cant.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#370

Post by zip1234 » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 11:10 PM UTC

Aerroon wrote: post #114

agumonkey wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, without cars we would need no lanes.

What do you do in winter? Or during rain?

The sad fact is that most bicycles sold in America are not equipped properly for inclement weather or for utility. They should all have fenders and bike racks/baskets and the utility increases immensely. Fenders alone are super helpful. Without them you can't really even ride right after it is done raining because there will be spray up your back.