Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds

#361

Post by Rule35 » Tue, Apr 06, 2021, 3:26 AM UTC

tekromancr wrote: post #270

Rule35 wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I reject your absolutist ideology. If it's a forced choice of with your or against you, then you've asked for against. Edit: With them or they'll do anything from downvote you to set your car on fire. This is why people don't believe you, or support you. Look at the modern intellectual arguing the equivalent of Wickard v Filburn. Anti-union would be going out of my way to lobby my government to forbid unions. Neutral…

I would posit that you aren't rejecting any ideology, you are being presented with the fact even inaction is a political choice, and that seems to upset you. That's okay, there are a lot of facts about reality that upset me, too! Unfortunately facts don't care about our feelings, and no amount of sulking about it will change the fact that so called union neutrality is an anti-union position. Not only is it anti-union…

Your 'everything is connected, inaction is action' argument is only compelling if you can provide a counter-example. A place where your rule breaks down. A rule without exceptions, in a complex domain, is just wrong.

Yes, we all breathe the same air. But at what point is you not fighting my battles with me reasonable disinterest - neutrality - rather than an active choice to hinder me? Clearly if you don't know me, and if you don't know the facts, etc...

I obviously reject it sooner than you, but if you don't reject it at some point then it's ideology and I reject that out of hand.

Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds

#362

Post by uoaei » Tue, Apr 06, 2021, 4:40 AM UTC

htnsao wrote: post #350

uoaei wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whining about a cancel culture that basically doesn't actually exist is pretty ironic. What a typical response from such a creative, self-actualized "male". There are a host of other reasons that literally everything you just said doesn't and can't apply to the vast majority of people, but there's not enough room here to attempt to start without leaving out something important.

"cancel culture that basically doesn't actually exist" That's funny. My definition of it certainly does but then I'm just referring to bleeding-hearts like you. Most of the HN downvoter crowd fit the bill too, so petty. Sure go ahead and whine about manspreading on buses, safe places, or whatever is the trending topic du jour. It's tyranny of the meek/weak on their internet soapbox. I worked in harsh, cold and violen…

"my definition" is literally the creation of a safe space so your views can remain unchallenged.

Really fun to watch you types contradict yourselves at every turn.

Valid critique is not "cancel culture", if you can't stand behind your own opinions then maybe you should try to understand why you relinquish in the face of any criticism whatsoever and retreat to hide to your safe space.

Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds

#363

Post by uoaei » Tue, Apr 06, 2021, 4:43 AM UTC

tracer4201 wrote: post #342

uoaei wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe a little trite, but this is the correct framing IMO. Blindly accepting rules, just because they're noted down in some policy by a perceived authority, is the very definition of bootlicking .

That’s interesting. So when someone has an opinion that differs from your world view, you launch personal attacks directly at them? Does cyber bullying make you feel better about yourself? Because that’s what you are - a bully. Many of your neighbors are capitalists. You must have a lot of unhealthy bent up anger if this is how you respond to people with different perspectives. I hope you find help.

If you are feeling personally attacked when someone accurately characterizes your philosophical stance, you may not be as secure in your opinions as you think you are.

Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds

#364

Post by missedthecue » Tue, Apr 06, 2021, 4:53 AM UTC

nerdponx wrote: post #71

pow_pp_-1_v wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they had provided good benefits and working condition, the workers will not be incentivized to form unions, right? Why are they not doing that?

Because good benefits and working conditions are fleeting without the power of collective bargaining behind it. Without a union, employees are depending entirely on the goodwill of their employers.

Huh. I've been under the mistaken impression that there is more than one employer in the US

Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds

#365

Post by missedthecue » Tue, Apr 06, 2021, 4:54 AM UTC

minikites wrote: post #66

pow_pp_-1_v wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they had provided good benefits and working condition, the workers will not be incentivized to form unions, right? Why are they not doing that?

You don't get to be a billionaire by treating your workers well. Pay and benefits will always be worse at a non-union workplace because the workers have no leverage.

This must be why googlers are infamously paid so little.

Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds

#366

Post by tracer4201 » Tue, Apr 06, 2021, 4:59 AM UTC

uoaei wrote: post #363

tracer4201 wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s interesting. So when someone has an opinion that differs from your world view, you launch personal attacks directly at them? Does cyber bullying make you feel better about yourself? Because that’s what you are - a bully. Many of your neighbors are capitalists. You must have a lot of unhealthy bent up anger if this is how you respond to people with different perspectives. I hope you find help.

If you are feeling personally attacked when someone accurately characterizes your philosophical stance, you may not be as secure in your opinions as you think you are.

You called me a bootlicker and then doubled down, told me your personal attack on me is objectively correct, and told me I’m insecure when I called you out on it.

You’re the definition of a cyber bully.

I imagine in real life you don’t have half the spine to behave this way, and if you do, I feel terribly sorry for anyone who has to interact with you.

Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds

#367

Post by jakelazaroff » Tue, Apr 06, 2021, 6:11 AM UTC

Rule35 wrote: post #361

tekromancr wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would posit that you aren't rejecting any ideology, you are being presented with the fact even inaction is a political choice, and that seems to upset you. That's okay, there are a lot of facts about reality that upset me, too! Unfortunately facts don't care about our feelings, and no amount of sulking about it will change the fact that so called union neutrality is an anti-union position. Not only is it anti-union…

Your 'everything is connected, inaction is action' argument is only compelling if you can provide a counter-example. A place where your rule breaks down. A rule without exceptions, in a complex domain, is just wrong. Yes, we all breathe the same air. But at what point is you not fighting my battles with me reasonable disinterest - neutrality - rather than an active choice to hinder me? Clearly if you don't know me, a…

A union gains leverage by monopolizing the sale of labor to a company; a company gains leverage when they can buy labor elsewhere. If you don’t support the union, you are necessarily chipping away at their monopoly. There’s no action whereby your choice doesn’t change the balance of power between the two.

Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds

#368

Post by Rule35 » Tue, Apr 06, 2021, 7:07 AM UTC

jakelazaroff wrote: post #367

Rule35 wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your 'everything is connected, inaction is action' argument is only compelling if you can provide a counter-example. A place where your rule breaks down. A rule without exceptions, in a complex domain, is just wrong. Yes, we all breathe the same air. But at what point is you not fighting my battles with me reasonable disinterest - neutrality - rather than an active choice to hinder me? Clearly if you don't know me, a…

A union gains leverage by monopolizing the sale of labor to a company; a company gains leverage when they can buy labor elsewhere. If you don’t support the union, you are necessarily chipping away at their monopoly. There’s no action whereby your choice doesn’t change the balance of power between the two.

Did you try to catch a serial killer today? If not you helped kill their victim.

Now either explain the limit to that logic or turn yourself in to the police.

Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds

#369

Post by Rule35 » Tue, Apr 06, 2021, 7:16 AM UTC

jakelazaroff wrote: post #279

Rule35 wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're either a scab or you're not; that's definitional, not rhetorical. No, I'm an unaffiliated potential worker. Scab is a derogatory term. It's not surprising unions are losing support with that attitude. You're thinking you have a right to the job and that by not supporting you I'm taking it away. You don't though and from my point of view a union is a threat of violence (try crossing a picket line) and is one…

We don't have to imagine. This very article is about employees who were illegally fired for not kowtowing to the right opinions. These politics do control your job, whether you want them to or not.

No, because I don't lie about peeing in a bottle at my job and make trouble.

But if there was a union there'd be a never ending parade of shit I'd have to watch out for. Like having to pretend that we have to piss in bottles rather than using the washroom or else having my stuff vandalized and maybe being beaten in the parking lot. Unions use lies and violence to get their way, been there, had enough of that.

What was reasonable in the early 1900s against literal Pinkertons with guns, because of acid leaching into the mine in a company town a hundred miles from anywhere, is now ridiculous and you should try turning down work you don't like instead of making up these stories.

Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds

#370

Post by tweetle_beetle » Tue, Apr 06, 2021, 7:54 AM UTC

nerdponx wrote: post #260

tweetle_beetle wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that slightly different and more because the film industry is unusual in that it has adapted around the unionised environment? Stars would have joined the union early in their career for the protection, but late on its minimal expense for sake of keeping the cogs of production turning. I'm no expert, but I imagine there are various on-set insurances which require actors to be a member of union, etc. It's not qu…

Seems pretty much the same to me. Junior devs have to work their way up, senior devs already make big bucks and don't really "need" the union anymore.

There's a hypothesis for why it's different and a potential example of how it's different in my comment. Interested to develop the comparison further, but your response ignores the content of mine and just repeats the grandparent.