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Whistleblowers: Software keeping inmates in Arizona prisons beyond release dates

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Re: Whistleblowers: Software keeping inmates in Arizona prisons beyond release dates

#361
post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's wise in these situations to consider the concept of plausible deniability, and how it can be used to obscure intent. To my knowledge, nobody has been sentenced to slavery in a long, long time. On the other hand, the US has managed to lock up 2% of its population and force them to labor in circumstances and rates that would be illegal for free citizens in order to guarantee the profit of private corporations. Tha…

For the record, I fully support decriminalizing drugs, even if I disagree with the currently fashionable rhetoric about their supposed harmlessness. The statistical debate you want to have is fine. It could potentially be helpful, but not if you insist on terms that tell people that they are helpless. Please just stick to accurate terms that don't convince people to not even try. We have an existing term, "prison lab…

> It's vital to recognize that criminals can choose to exit the criminal class.

Citation needed.

How can one choose to not have a cop plant evidence on you? Or lie during trial, or choose to not get strong armed into pleading guilty because you can't afford bail and they're threatening you with even worse consequences if you don't plead out early? Or not have a law about drug usage enforced selectively against you and not against others? These are things that happen each and every day in this country, to paint that as a choice on the part of everyone is actually kind of insulting.

Even for those who did commit crimes and got thrown in jail, what exactly do you expect them to do when they get out and can't get a job? Recidivism is very high in this country, higher than our peers. Either you've got to conjure up something about American criminals that makes them permanently criminally, in which case I will just assume that you're two steps away from getting out the skull calipers, or you're forced to come to the conclusion that we've decided to arrange our society in a way that makes this a likely outcome.

Yes, some individuals do escape the cycle, and that is both good for them and good for society. But given the strong trend, one has to ask why.

> stay addicted to drugs, sex, and violence, and keep coming to prison over and over

See, there's a funny thing that happens here. This logic is only ever applied to some people. Poor, black, and addicted to crack? Criminal, straight to jail, do not pass go, do not collect any help. Rural white and addicted to opioids? Well by god they're a victim who needs help!

Now to be honest, I think that both of those groups need help, and should be treated far, far better. But the selective nature of who gets sympathy and treatment and who gets steel bracelets is pretty core to my argument.

> There are some skinheads that blame racial preferences for their own failures in life, lest anyone think that I'm naming SJWs facetiously

I still think you're bringing up SJWs facetiously.

> Stop telling people that they have no control over their lives.

Stop making up my point. It's annoying.

Every single person's outcome is a mixture of their own choices, luck, and society. Individual choices matter, I never claimed to the contrary. The question is not "do individual choices matter" but rather "is the playing field setup in such a way that some people's choices are more likely to result in negative outcomes than other people's?" > those are the people that I see coming back to prison on their 8th or 9th sentence. Those are the guys with 8 kids, most of whom will also end up dead or in prison.

Gee, I wonder why that seems to happen so often? Obviously it's people on the internet worried about the US criminal system's fault, because that obviously makes sense.

Re: Whistleblowers: Software keeping inmates in Arizona prisons beyond release dates

#362

EDIT: Want to clearly state that I think it's horrible that people are being held past when they should be. The below is more of devil's advocate view of the problem. /EDIT To add a slightly contrarian perspective, this reminds me of what I think was an old HN discussion about payroll systems. One of the comments was along the lines of: BEGIN QUOTE You think it's "just payroll"? What about the following: - The person…

> What about the guy who is in a gang now but was in a different gang last year? And his stuff is in another block because his block's storage area is full? And he can't take the top bunk because he has gout(or diabetes etc) and can't climb anything?

Having a lot of unique edge cases is not really an excuse to not even attempt an adequate solution. Everything is manageable if you have a high enough view of everything.

> Do you build a dryrun option to see what a small tweak to the rules do? In my experience, probably not.

In MRP systems this is done regularly. I'm sure it's done regularly with most logistics software as well. Scheduling is an inherently difficult problem in computer science not unlike the traveling salesmen problem. There are algorithms you can employ to reduce your workload in solving the problem, but in high stakes systems even the best algorithms are going to employ at least one validation run if not several brute force attempts. In MRP systems most software has features to enable multiple schedules. So you have a production schedule, and a playground environment for finding your best opportunity cost.

> Long story short, jails are incredibly complex environments with a multitude of complex dimensions to account for. If you are curious about this, I highly recommend reading "Jailhouse Doc" [0]. It's an incredibly insightful look into JUST the medical side of prisons.

Bill Gates once said he liked to find lazy engineers to solve complex problems because they usually find a simple solution. In my experience, if the solution to a problem isn't programmatically obvious, you need to stop thinking in tangible items (or in this case, people) and start thinking in object oriented terms. For example, it is usually possible to turn a one-and-done conditional statement into a loop. There is a way to scale just about any program, you just need to view the problem from a higher altitude.

Re: Whistleblowers: Software keeping inmates in Arizona prisons beyond release dates

#363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This appears to me to be a terrible idea. In effect you would have private companies writing the laws of the land. "I'm sorry California you can't change your laws because it doesn't fit into the three options we have available at our preferred software vendor". Seems like the tail wagging the dog.

You can solve this problem pretty easily by using free software projects.

You forgot the closing /sarcasm tag

Re: Whistleblowers: Software keeping inmates in Arizona prisons beyond release dates

#364

When I wanted to have compiled [1] financials, PriceWaterhouseCoopers told me to pick a recognized accounting system, then change the company's business processes to match that. They said absolutely not to go the other way, to try to customize any software to match our business. I think about that every time I read about another government (or private!) company that wastes tens or hundreds of million of dollars (or e…

This appears to me to be a terrible idea. In effect you would have private companies writing the laws of the land. "I'm sorry California you can't change your laws because it doesn't fit into the three options we have available at our preferred software vendor". Seems like the tail wagging the dog.

It could go that way. But the idea is that Massachusetts might charge EVs extra license fees because they want to replace the lost gas taxes whereas Montana and Mississippi wouldn't. Massachusetts already has different and higher pollution regulations (typically based on California's).

Other states might want to do the same, although the fees would probably differ. So the idea is that 10 or 15 states cluster around one solution for a department, 20 for another, 10 for a third and the rest go their own way. The states would have a lot of power in being able to replace working solution A with B or C. So there's 3 or 4 DMV vendors, there's 3 or 4 unemployment vendors, some for contact tracing (my state of Oregon still hasn't implemented the Google/Apple tracing), and so on.

The current situation is that you know a potential replacement will be late and over budget, you just don't know exactly how bad it will be. And Accenture and IBM like it that way and are very adept at persuading the decision makers that they're very special snowflakes and can't use an off-the-shelf solution.

Re: Whistleblowers: Software keeping inmates in Arizona prisons beyond release dates

#365
post #97
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not trying to defend anyone, but I'm sure we can find many other reasons why there are so many bugs here unrelated to QA :)

What is QA if it cannot be blamed for low quality?

It's a rubber stamp like many other things in this development model.

Not saying their QA is useful, but it's not tough to imagine their QA being many layers removed from decision making. ie: Program Manager -> Product Owner -> Project Manager -> Business Analyst -> QA -- not even mentioning reporting lines.

That person in QA at the end of the chain is likely following a script written & approved by the layers above them to a T. It's highly unlikely that they are empowered to go off script or raise tangential issues. Doing so may even cost them their job.

Re: Whistleblowers: Software keeping inmates in Arizona prisons beyond release dates

#366

When I wanted to have compiled [1] financials, PriceWaterhouseCoopers told me to pick a recognized accounting system, then change the company's business processes to match that. They said absolutely not to go the other way, to try to customize any software to match our business. I think about that every time I read about another government (or private!) company that wastes tens or hundreds of million of dollars (or e…

> It seems like there should be 1, 2, or 3 DMV programs. The same for building codes, tax codes, etc. And prison software. You can be more like Massachusetts or Mississippi or Montana (hypothetical examples) but pick one and harmonize with it.

Kind of defeats the entire purpose of having states to start with.

If we want to make the US a centralized, unitary state, let's do that through the elected central government and not through deferral to IT contractors.

Re: Whistleblowers: Software keeping inmates in Arizona prisons beyond release dates

#367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> at which point the authority in question would recognize that this constitutes an exception to said revocation. I think you misunderstand the nature of authority by thinking that they would recognize this as an exception. > You know ... the obvious way. Whats obvious here is that an incarcerated person only has the options that the carceral state permits to them.

>Whats obvious here is that an incarcerated person only has the options that the carceral state permits to them. Yes, thank you for the tautology. You'll note that this was exactly my question: does the state make such exceptions? If you don't know, that's perfectly fine, but respectfully, your apparent mistrust of authority is hardly interesting to internet strangers. We're more interested in any factual elements yo…

Rather than the parent's comment coming across as mistrustful, yours comes across as apologetic for authority.

The idea that someone in authority, on being reminded that they're wrong, will turn around and do what's being asked by their subject is contrary to virtually every study on authority and, indeed, daily experience.

This entire discussion is in response to an article highlighting the prison system's refusal to update a system to provide inmates with their guaranteed rights.

Of course the state, in principle, makes such exceptions. The question is whether those exceptions are respected. And especially in light of the context in which we're debating (the article), yours and not the parent's seems the extraordinary claim.

Re: Whistleblowers: Software keeping inmates in Arizona prisons beyond release dates

#368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This appears to me to be a terrible idea. In effect you would have private companies writing the laws of the land. "I'm sorry California you can't change your laws because it doesn't fit into the three options we have available at our preferred software vendor". Seems like the tail wagging the dog.

It could go that way. But the idea is that Massachusetts might charge EVs extra license fees because they want to replace the lost gas taxes whereas Montana and Mississippi wouldn't. Massachusetts already has different and higher pollution regulations (typically based on California's). Other states might want to do the same, although the fees would probably differ. So the idea is that 10 or 15 states cluster around o…

> The current situation is that you know a potential replacement will be late and over budget, you just don't know exactly how bad it will be.

The solution to which is “stop doing big-bang replacements of nontrivial operational systems, instead of incremental ship-of-theseus replacements, using something like the strangler pattern.” And that applies to initially automating existing manual processes, too.

Re: Whistleblowers: Software keeping inmates in Arizona prisons beyond release dates

#369
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This advice appears based on deficiencies in programming however. Programs operate on algorithms to process data. When the programs or algorithms fail to be able to do so properly the program is at fault. In your cases you have items like: accounting, building codes, tax codes, automobile codes, etc. While it makes sense to try and harmonize with the general policies, every state, every municipality, and every busine…

My dad actually created a (failed) startup in the early '00s that modeled immigration law in Prolog, enabling the creation of legally accurate forms and resolving complex legal queries. It was a good idea, it just failed due to infighting and mismanagement. are there popular languages for implementing these types of DSLs?

Sounds like a suitable task for formal verification languages like Coq and Isabelle.

Re: Whistleblowers: Software keeping inmates in Arizona prisons beyond release dates

#370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This appears to me to be a terrible idea. In effect you would have private companies writing the laws of the land. "I'm sorry California you can't change your laws because it doesn't fit into the three options we have available at our preferred software vendor". Seems like the tail wagging the dog.

You can solve this problem pretty easily by using free software projects.

> You can solve this problem pretty easily by using free software projects.

Yes, but not just using existing ones, but having public agency specialized software be developed in the open in free software projects, which could then be forked, remixed, or used as is with or without upstream contribution, as appropriate, rather than closed silos.

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