Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

tomshardware.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

361–370 of 520 posts

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#361

Post by dahart »

PartiallyTyped wrote: post #350
dahart wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you’re asking for is to get royally screwed by miners now - again - just so you might have the chance to get a cheap and very-used card later. And you’re blaming Nvidia for losing this imagined opportunity a year from now. Right, like you point out, in 2018, Nvidia was making a lot of money on leftover 1080s. And they’re proposing to not do that this time. Are you suggesting that gamers are going to bypass a $33…

> What you’re asking for is to get royally screwed by miners now - again - just so you might have the chance to get a cheap and very-used card later. And you’re blaming Nvidia for losing this imagined opportunity a year from now. Re very used: no. Cards used for mining are a) undervolted and b) underclocked, both increase lifespan and I'd take them over an overclocked card used for gaming, plus they don't run that ho…

> I am complaining because it goes against my interests.

So you are already certain you want to buy a used 3060 next year?

> I never said mining isn't affecting demand

You said "NVDA's stance is that miners are the reason for scarce GPUs, but it is not."

> the crypto rally started loooong after NVDA had supply issues

This is irrelevant. You mean this time, right? There wasn't a supply problem last time before bitcoin miners bought everything. It doesn't make any difference to gamers which contributor to scarcity came first, when you're talking about 3060 sales that haven't started yet.

> I am tired of this conversation and you are either taking my sentences out of context and blow them out of proportion.

I think you're taking this entire issue out of context and blowing it out of proportion. You claimed gamers are being screwed, when they're not, they're actually being helped. Many gamers here and on other threads are happy that Nvidia is taking steps to curb miner scalping of the 3060. The change here is to a single model, the 3060. Segmenting that market over this single model helps gamers today, and is not going to kill the second hand market for gaming cards. All other models will be untouched, and the 3060 will still be available second hand.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#362

Post by dahart »

qqii wrote: post #351
dahart wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> miners can now no longer recoup some money Ah, you’re a miner? You’re worried about their ability to make money? > gamers realize they’re being screwed How, exactly?

> miners can now no longer recoup some money When it was no longer profitable miners sold their GPUs on the uses market, here is evidence of that: https://youtu.be/plrsxEGYO-A > gamers realize they’re being screwed Linus Tech Tips' video and the /r/hardware discussion puts this best: https://youtu.be/plrsxEGYO-A

It's true that cheap cards were available when bitcoin crashed in 2018. I'm not arguing that cheap cards weren't available. I'm saying the feeling that cheap cards are a huge positive for the gaming community is missing the forest for the trees, and forgetting the pain of what happened before there were cheap cards. Cheap cards came around eventually long after the cards had been unavailable and waaaaay overpriced. It was a relief for gamers that the bubble popped, but on balance, it was not a good thing that they had the bubble.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#363

Post by jagger27 »

quickthrowman wrote: post #348
pornel wrote: post #4

I have no sympathy for miners, but purely from software freedom perspective this is maximally evil: closed-source software that decides what you can use your hardware for. The CMP version is a straight-to-landfill product. As soon as it stops being profitable for mining it will have zero resale value, and become e-waste.

> The CMP version is a straight-to-landfill product. As soon as it stops being profitable for mining it will have zero resale value, and become e-waste. You are aware that this already happens to BTC ASICs when the new generation of ASIC comes out, right? Straight to the landfill. BTC is very wasteful, this is not new.

The difference being that NVIDIAs dies were otherwise usable for other tasks, unlike Bitcoin SHA ASICs.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#364

Post by PartiallyTyped »

dahart wrote: post #361
PartiallyTyped wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What you’re asking for is to get royally screwed by miners now - again - just so you might have the chance to get a cheap and very-used card later. And you’re blaming Nvidia for losing this imagined opportunity a year from now. Re very used: no. Cards used for mining are a) undervolted and b) underclocked, both increase lifespan and I'd take them over an overclocked card used for gaming, plus they don't run that ho…

> I am complaining because it goes against my interests. So you are already certain you want to buy a used 3060 next year? > I never said mining isn't affecting demand You said "NVDA's stance is that miners are the reason for scarce GPUs, but it is not." > the crypto rally started loooong after NVDA had supply issues This is irrelevant. You mean this time , right? There wasn't a supply problem last time before bitcoi…

> So you are already certain you want to buy a used 3060 next year?

I wanted to buy a graphics card to run my models. I don't have the $$$ to buy a datacenter card for it and in general, I am affected by the demand and the scalpers. I was considering 3060 because my models are small and it is faster than my 1080ti, but at 21x9 1080p@60hz, it's not an upgrade for my gaming experience because that is capped by the monitor, and I am really not willing to buy a new monitor.

> You said "NVDA's stance is that miners are the reason for scarce GPUs, but it is not."

The reason is mentioned before, too much demand for chips, not enough fabrication. You instead, blame the scarcity on mining, mining is part of the demand but is not the main factor.

Linus and many others, me included, disagree with your opinion that NVDA is helping gamers. NVDA does not care about gamers, they are a corporation, they care for their bottom line and their stock price.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#365

Post by threeseed »

arcticbull wrote: post #242
pornel wrote: post #4

I have no sympathy for miners, but purely from software freedom perspective this is maximally evil: closed-source software that decides what you can use your hardware for. The CMP version is a straight-to-landfill product. As soon as it stops being profitable for mining it will have zero resale value, and become e-waste.

> The CMP version is a straight-to-landfill product. As soon as it stops being profitable for mining it will have zero resale value, and become e-waste. Like literally every other piece of Bitcoin or crypto mining technology. It’s straight to the landfill every 6 months. Bitcoin generates 100 GRAMS of ewaste for every transaction. Every 2 transactions consumes as much energy as driving a Tesla from SF to NY [edit for…

No. It's time to push back on Bitcoin.

It is disgraceful to watch people such as Elon Musk and most of the VCs put money ahead of the environment.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#366

Post by dahart »

PartiallyTyped wrote: post #358
dahart wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strange theories on top of strange theories. The GTX 1080 is good enough forever? People are using 1080p forever? Games are staying put with the fidelity and textures and poly counts they had 5 years ago, and not improving any more? Last time I checked, there weren’t all that many games that run at 60Hz 1080p and never dip.

What are you talking about here? My argument is rather simple and you are wilfully misinterpreting it to make your statement. If you want to game, at 1080p, there is very little reason to spend money on a big upgrade, even going with 3xxx series is an overkill. > Last time I checked, there weren’t all that many games that run at 60Hz 1080p and never dip. CITATION NEEDED. The 3060ti is benchmarked at 4k hitting mid to…

> even going with 3xxx series is an overkill.

Then why do you care at all about the 3060 segmentation into CMP cards?

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#367

Post by bserge »

nitrogen wrote: post #294
pantalaimon wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But how big of an issue is that really in practice? You still see 20+ years old machines chugging along just fine.

That's a bit of survivor bias. I used to buy truckloads of old PCs and recycle them when I was a teenager. I initially thought that this old tech was just really built to last, but in reality I was selecting the 1% or less that could survive being shoved around a rat-feces-infested warehouse at freezing temperatures before ending up in my parents' garage, to their dismay. Those survivors seemed to last freaking forev…

Haha, I also noticed that used parts that lasted ~2-4 years have a lower failure rate than new ones. All the ones that fail, fail early, and the surviving ones go through a sort of "extended burn-in" so to say.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#368

Post by bserge »

nottorp wrote: post #100
vimy wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can electronics actually wear out?

Dunno about the silicon, but the cooling system will be absolutely hosed after a year or two of running at top speed 24/7.

Not if you have filters set up and clean/change them regularly. I'm assuming miners monitor their temperatures, as well, as long as it's under 80 degC, chips will work for years under load. Though VRM components are of rather poor quality compared to GPUs, CPUs and RAM, that's a major failure point.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#369

Post by bserge »

solarkraft wrote: post #344
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it impossible to game on these?

While officially impossible, theoretically it should be work, in the same way as laptop GPUs (the dedicated GPU gives the rendered image back to the integrated GPU for seamless switching instead of outputing it directly). It has been tried 2 years ago on LinusTechTips: https://youtu.be/TY4s35uULg4 TL;DW: Very weird and extremely unofficial, but it can be done. These might still be some cheap rendering cards on Linux…

There's used Tesla M6 cards (top of the range Maxwell GM204 cores, 8GB of RAM) going for really cheap sometimes. They have no video output, but you can use them in laptops with hybrid graphics thanks to the output being routed through the CPUs IGP as you said.

Needs quite a bit of driver fuckery to have it recognized as either a GTX 980m or a Quadro M5000m, and you lose HDMI/DP output, but it's not a bad card for an upgrade if you only use the internal display.

I'm surprised there are no MXM to PCIe x16 adapters, these kinds of cards are cheaper than desktop ones (due to the market/pricing being totally screwed) while providing similar performance.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#370

Post by imtringued »

DoctorNick wrote: post #70
qqii wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so? Take this excerpt from the article: > Nvidia does state that these GPUs "don't meet the specifications required of a GeForce GPU and, thus, don't impact the availability of GeForce GPUs to gamers." Frankly, that doesn't mean much. What does Nvidia do with a GPU that normally can't be sold as an RTX 3090? They bin it as a 3080, and GA102 chips that can't meet the 3080 requirements can end up in a future 3070 (…

Because cryptocurrency mining is now one of the biggest contributors to climate change. It is killing the planet. It is a moral imperiative to shut it down by any means necessary.

That's neither true nor the reason why Nvidia is doing this.

What Nvidia is doing is like a dad making his kids share their sweets in a 50:50 ratio by taking advantage of the fact that one of his kids has a peanut allergy and the other has a walnut allergy and therefore 50% of the sweets contain peanuts and the other 50% walnuts.

Post reply on HN