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Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

reuters.com

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Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#361

Post by ClumsyPilot »

nickysielicki wrote: post #98
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How you can argue for less software freedoms, while paying a 30% tax for any app you distribute, is honestly mind boggling to me. >On the one hand, Apple is acting as a store curator and demanding that its customers be made aware of tracking software. This sounds like marketing. Apple is limiting what apps their customers have access to. I wonder if you would make the same argument if Apple starts blocking websites?

It’s not about the outcome, it’s about reasoning from first principles and going where ever that leads you, regardless of how much you dislike the outcome. Nobody has to buy an iPhone, iPad, or MacBook. Apple has the right to create the software ecosystem they want to create. Their success in mobile computing is arguably a direct result of their closed ecosystem.

"it’s about reasoning from first principles and going where ever that leads you, regardless of how much you dislike the outcome"

This sounds an awfull lot like the though process of religious zealots and extremists. Ignore the real world, consequences be damned, ideology comes first. There is no way we could make an error of judgement. Thats how you get a famine and 50 million dead in China.

"Apple has the right to create the software ecosystem they want to create."

There is absolutely no such right, neither morally nor legally

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#362

Post by LegitShady »

dubcanada wrote: post #184

I can hardly wait to use Amazon App Store to install Amazon and then open up the Epic Game Store to install random game and then open up EA Game Store to install random game and then open up Facebook App Store to install Facebook and then open up the Apple App Store to install the Blizzard App Store to install Hearthstone and then go back to the Apple App Store and update the Blizzard App Store so I can get the lates…

flipside - I'm very excited for apple to be removed as the gatekeeper to running any software at all on the devices. I'd rather have too many stores than one gatekeeper who controls all ios devices and takes a huge financial cut for the privilege.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#363

Post by CivBase »

jpttsn wrote: post #359
SCHiM wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You install those yourself you know. I'd rather have a choice than not. I feel your pain in the sense that that I think user UX will take a hit, but I think that's less important than breaking the monopoly of the current app store. For example, I can't find apps with pornography or other types of things the high overlords at apple or Google have deemed inappropriate for me to have. That's bad. Apparently apps like Ma…

Wouldn’t Apple just ban you from installing the Porn Store? Or do you think Epic will make them allow any and all alternative app stores?

If Apple allows you to install alternative app stores, I assume that means they allow you to "side load" apps. If that's the case, Apple can't really ban you from installing anything.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#365

Post by notthemessiah »

dkonofalski wrote: post #246
simion314 wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think EA created a game store because it feels parasitic that Valve could take 30% of your sells, why not make your own store and keep the 30% . What I would do is force EA to put their games on all stores, then on their own store they can give you a 25% discount because they don't have to pay the tax. Then people could decide if they want store A, B or C version. If the store tax would be low enough there would no…

It's not parasitic of Valve, though. Valve created the storefront and platform that has all of those customers baked into it. EA is not just paying 30% for the privilege of selling their game, they're paying for the customer base that they haven't had to work to establish on that platform.

It is parasitic, but I think in the bigger scheme of things, Valve is a lesser evil than Epic, which is in itself a lesser evil than Apple. Valve is investing in its own capital as well as the infrastructure for the PC gaming industry at large (Vulkan and driver improvements), whereas Epic has no endgame but to gain market share using bottomless VC pockets. Apple, while a company with some merits, utilizes vertical integration that is overall harmful for user freedom, especially when it comes to the right-to-repair, and is only using its revenue to further remove themselves from the large tech ecosystem and build up the walls of its gated community with their own unique hardware/software.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#366

Post by rgbrenner »

arendtio wrote: post #291

A bit OT, but I still fail to grasp why Apple is allowed to restrict all browsers on iOS to the Safari rendering engine. Microsoft had to pay big because they didn't asked their users properly for alternative browsers, yet Apple doesn't even give other browsers a fair chance to compete on iOS. Consumers suffer because Apple controls about 50% of the mobile market and if Apple decides a certain feature will not be ava…

50% in the US market (27% globally) is very far from the 98% global marketshare that Windows had in 2000. MacOS had the other 2% (thanks to being propped up by MS 2 years earlier). That was the entire competitive landscape. Linux existed, but if you used it back then (I did), it was difficult to get a desktop going, and virtually no one used it on the desktop.

And while the DOJ might only care about the US market... the fact that Microsoft's domination extended worldwide means not only were there no US competitors, but there weren't foreign competitors to challenge them either.

The fact that Android--with 50% US and 72% global marketshare--is so competitive with Apple makes it clear these two situations are not equivalent. Apple is more abusive/controlling in some ways, but they dont have the market power that Microsoft had.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#367

Post by ricardobayes »

SCHiM wrote: post #197
dubcanada wrote: post #184

I can hardly wait to use Amazon App Store to install Amazon and then open up the Epic Game Store to install random game and then open up EA Game Store to install random game and then open up Facebook App Store to install Facebook and then open up the Apple App Store to install the Blizzard App Store to install Hearthstone and then go back to the Apple App Store and update the Blizzard App Store so I can get the lates…

You install those yourself you know. I'd rather have a choice than not. I feel your pain in the sense that that I think user UX will take a hit, but I think that's less important than breaking the monopoly of the current app store. For example, I can't find apps with pornography or other types of things the high overlords at apple or Google have deemed inappropriate for me to have. That's bad. Apparently apps like Ma…

Freedom of choice is an illusion, with the advance of megacorporations, even so. They will choose for you.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#368

Post by EveYoung »

paulgb wrote: post #174
isodev wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No computer platform should be allowed to prevent sideloading or other stores from competing. The iPhone is not a computer platform, it's an integrated experience. Raspberry Pi or the PC you assemble is a platform (which you can still choose to do, if you want).

That’s one way of looking at it, but I think the reason the issue keeps coming up on HN is that it feels like a serious regression that we’ve ended up in a world where one of the most ubiquitous platforms is a walled garden. Even in the days of Windows dominance, that wasn’t a problem. The transition happened so gradually that we ended up here without a lot of discussion, which is why the discussion is happening now.

But customers who like to have more freedom can still buy Android phones instead. Nobody is forcing them to buy Apple devices. I think it's a positive thing that we have diverse options for different needs.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#369

Post by jaegerpicker »

simias wrote: post #341
BrianGragg wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is the choice is taken away from you though. Just like he said with the game market. If you want to play Game A, you go and download/install Game A's publishing app store. If you want to then play Game B, rinse and repeat. You will be forced to use so many different app stores and won't have a choice to NOT use their app store "IF" it progresses like it has on the desktop. No proof it will/won't either.

There are plenty of cross-store games on PC. And even if some games end up being exclusive you might still benefit as a player thanks to the competition. If Epic started offering a very bad user experience game devs would hesitate to publish exclusively through them because they'd fear reduced revenue. It's also a very good thing for game devs who aren't at the mercy of the whims of a single company. Steam no longer…

Epic DOES offer a terrible experience, especially on Mac. It crashes ALL the time. It's terribly slow. It regularly consumes over 50% of available Ram and CPU. It still has exclusives and it's the only place I can get Unreal Engine if I want it. The PC game market is a prime example of how this common knowledge not being true at all for consumers. A couple of years ago steam was really the App Store for games and the user experience was far better. Now it's the worst it's been ever. Gog, UPlay Connect, Origin, Steam, Epic Game store etc... All with exclusives, all with massive privacy issues, all worse for consumer's.

The only way to truly improve it for consumer is to require that all platform's be open source. That I could get behind but it will never happen.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#370

Post by cycomanic »

dubcanada wrote: post #184

I can hardly wait to use Amazon App Store to install Amazon and then open up the Epic Game Store to install random game and then open up EA Game Store to install random game and then open up Facebook App Store to install Facebook and then open up the Apple App Store to install the Blizzard App Store to install Hearthstone and then go back to the Apple App Store and update the Blizzard App Store so I can get the lates…

I wonder what we used to do before we had appstores? That must have been a horrible time. And we didn't have amazon either how did we even shop?

Sorry for the sarcasm, but why do we even need appstores, apart from it being a website to download stuff?

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