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Intel Problems

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Re: Intel Problems

#361

Post by mulmen »

rauhl wrote: post #263
ashtonkem wrote: post #10

I think one day we’re going to wake up and discover that AWS mostly runs on Graviton (ARM) and not x86. And on that day intel’s troubles will go from future to present. My standing theory is that the m1 will accelerate it. Obviously all the wholly managed AWS services (Dynamo, Kinesis, S3, etc.) can change over silently, but the issue is EC2. I have a MBP, as do all of my engineers. Within a few years all of these ma…

> I have a MBP, as do all of my engineers. Within a few years all of these machines will age out and be replaced with m1 powered machines. At that point the idea of developing on ARM and deploying on x86 will be unpleasant Is it not at least somewhat possible that at least some of those Apple laptops will age out and be replaced with GNU/Linux laptops? Agreed that developing on ARM and deploying on x86 is unpleasant,…

Approximately zero MacBooks will be replaced by Linux laptops in the next couple years. There is no new story in the Linux desktop world to make a Linux Laptop more appealing. That people already selected to develop on MacOS and deploy to Linux tells you all you need to know there.

MacPorts and Homebrew exist. Both support M1 more or less and support is improving.

Big Sur is a Big Disaster but hopefully this is just the MacOS version of iOS 13 and the next MacOS next year goes back to being mostly functional. I have more faith in that than a serviceable Linux desktop environment.

Re: Intel Problems

#362

Post by mulmen »

ogre_codes wrote: post #324
rurp wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as I would like it to happen, I think it's unlikely Linux will be taking any market share away from Macs. That said, I could imagine it happening a couple ways. The first being an increasingly iPhonified and restricted Mac OS that some devs get fed up with. The second would be Apple pushing all MacBooks to M1 too soon, breaking certain tools and workflows. While I think both of those scenarios could easily ha…

> The second would be Apple pushing all MacBooks to M1 too soon, breaking certain tools and workflows. I don't think this is an issue. Apple has been fairly straight about timelines and people who want to stick with Intel have plenty of time and options to get their stuff in a row in advance. More important, Apple fixed most of the major irritations with the MacBook Pro. If they hadn't launched the 16" MBP last year,…

Big Sur has me more worried about iOS-ification than ever before. The UI is a train wreck. It looks designed for touch and I have no idea why. I guess Sidecar?

They changed a ton about the UI in Big Sur, none of it for the better as far as I can tell. They took away even more choice, I can't have a "classic" desktop experience.

My biggest frustration is that they were willing to make such drastic changes to the desktop UI at all. I have to re-learn a ton of keyboard navigation now. And there doesn't seem to be a coherent design to the workflows.

Such a drastic change seems to be an admission that they thought the previous design language was wrong but they seem to have replaced it with... no vision at all?

I am hopeful for the next generation of M1 MacBook Pros and whatever the next MacOS is. Hopefully they get their design philosophy straight and stick with it.

Re: Intel Problems

#363

Post by alsetmusic »

ogre_codes wrote: post #304
rauhl wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have a MBP, as do all of my engineers. Within a few years all of these machines will age out and be replaced with m1 powered machines. At that point the idea of developing on ARM and deploying on x86 will be unpleasant Is it not at least somewhat possible that at least some of those Apple laptops will age out and be replaced with GNU/Linux laptops? Agreed that developing on ARM and deploying on x86 is unpleasant,…

> Is it not at least somewhat possible that at least some of those Apple laptops will age out and be replaced with GNU/Linux laptops? Has Linux desktop share been increasing lately? I'm not sure why a newer Mac with better CPU options is going to result in increasing Linux share. If anything, it's likely to be neutral or favor the Mac with it's newer/ faster CPU. > But frankly I believe Apple have lost ground UI-wise…

> Has Linux desktop share been increasing lately?

I run on Mac for desktop, Linux for projects. I don’t know that more people have been switching than before, but I thought the author of this[0] piece illustrated well that it’s easier than ever. That said, the author states that they opt not to have a phone. That’s much less lock-in than most of the market.

[0]https://orta.io/on/migrating/from/apple

Re: Intel Problems

#364

Post by alsetmusic »

mulmen wrote: post #362
ogre_codes wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The second would be Apple pushing all MacBooks to M1 too soon, breaking certain tools and workflows. I don't think this is an issue. Apple has been fairly straight about timelines and people who want to stick with Intel have plenty of time and options to get their stuff in a row in advance. More important, Apple fixed most of the major irritations with the MacBook Pro. If they hadn't launched the 16" MBP last year,…

Big Sur has me more worried about iOS-ification than ever before. The UI is a train wreck. It looks designed for touch and I have no idea why. I guess Sidecar? They changed a ton about the UI in Big Sur, none of it for the better as far as I can tell. They took away even more choice, I can't have a "classic" desktop experience. My biggest frustration is that they were willing to make such drastic changes to the deskt…

> Such a drastic change seems to be an admission that they thought the previous design language was wrong but they seem to have replaced it with... no vision at all?

Sure, but Jonny Ive just officially left. He was head of all design (when he should have been head of hardware design only). It’s natural that there would be greater-than-usual changes as someone new took over.

Big Sur has some pretty terrible changes. There’s nothing surprising that changes occurred. The only surprise is how bad they are.

Re: Intel Problems

#365

Post by hendry »

ashtonkem wrote: post #10

I think one day we’re going to wake up and discover that AWS mostly runs on Graviton (ARM) and not x86. And on that day intel’s troubles will go from future to present. My standing theory is that the m1 will accelerate it. Obviously all the wholly managed AWS services (Dynamo, Kinesis, S3, etc.) can change over silently, but the issue is EC2. I have a MBP, as do all of my engineers. Within a few years all of these ma…

Can't take Graviton seriously until I can run my binaries via Lambda on it.

Re: Intel Problems

#366

Post by optimuspaul »

mulmen wrote: post #361
rauhl wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have a MBP, as do all of my engineers. Within a few years all of these machines will age out and be replaced with m1 powered machines. At that point the idea of developing on ARM and deploying on x86 will be unpleasant Is it not at least somewhat possible that at least some of those Apple laptops will age out and be replaced with GNU/Linux laptops? Agreed that developing on ARM and deploying on x86 is unpleasant,…

Approximately zero MacBooks will be replaced by Linux laptops in the next couple years. There is no new story in the Linux desktop world to make a Linux Laptop more appealing. That people already selected to develop on MacOS and deploy to Linux tells you all you need to know there. MacPorts and Homebrew exist. Both support M1 more or less and support is improving. Big Sur is a Big Disaster but hopefully this is just…

> Big Sur is a Big Disaster

I may be naive but that seems like hyperbole. I updated to Big Sur shortly after is was released. It was a little bumpy here and there, but not more than any other update. I'd even argue it has been as smooth or smoother than any of my Linux major upgrades in the past 20 years.

Re: Intel Problems

#367

Post by tomc1985 »

Daho0n wrote: post #358
MangoCoffee wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>As for moves again at Taiwan, China hasn't given up that prize. CCP hasn't give up since KMT high-tailed to Taiwan. for more than 40+ yrs American cozy up with the Chinese govrt and doing business with China. American told Taiwan govrt not to "make trouble" but we all know China is the one who make all the troubles with military threat and flying aircraft over Taiwan, day in and day out. Taiwan have build up a impre…

> we all know China is the one who make all the troubles with military threat and flying aircraft over Taiwan, day in and day out. As they are fully well allowed to as Taiwan is their own territory. You and I might disagree but out of the 195 countries on earth the only ones who recognize Taiwan is a country are these few: Guatemala, Haiti, Honduras, Paraguay, Nicaragua, Belize, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent And The Gre…

> out of the 195 countries on earth the only ones who recognize Taiwan is a country are these few:

There would be a lot more if China wasn't so threatening about it.

The moment there is an opening or weakness, much more of the world will jump on board

Re: Intel Problems

#368

Post by hinkley »

spideymans wrote: post #248
ksec wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I commented [1] on something similar a few days ago, >Cloud (Intel) isn’t really challenged yet.... AWS are estimated to be ~50% of HyperScalers. HyperScalers are estimated to be 50% of Server and Cloud Business. HyperScalers are expanding at a rate faster than other market. HyperScaler expanding trend are not projected to be slowing down anytime soon. AWS intends to have all of their own workload and SaaS product ru…

>Which is why I was extremely worried about Intel. (Half of) The lucrative Server market is basically gone. Right. I suspect in time we'll look back to this time, and realize that it was already too late for Intel to right the ship, despite ARM having a tiny share of PC and server sales. Their PC business is in grave danger as well. Within a few years, we're going to see ARM-powered Windows PCs that are competitive w…

I think the irony few would have predicted is that Apple switching to Intel started all of this.

The effort to switch over from PPC and the payoff of doing so was still a recent memory when the iPhone came out, and so they partly pivoted again to ARM, and then smart phones ate the laptop and desktop business, increasing the overall base of non-x86 competence in the world. If Apple had not walked through that door, someone else would have, but Apple has a customer relationship that gives them some liberties that others don’t necessarily enjoy.

Re: Intel Problems

#369

Post by colinmhayes »

jjoonathan wrote: post #7

The "US manufacturing is actually stronger than ever" camp used to cook their books by over-weighting Intel profits. Hopefully this will be a wakeup call.

Manufacturing isn't an industry that the U.S. should be interested in currently. Wait until the entire factory can be automated and it will come back. Until then enjoy the cheaper goods provided by globalized labor.

Re: Intel Problems

#370

Post by interpol_p »

mulmen wrote: post #362
ogre_codes wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The second would be Apple pushing all MacBooks to M1 too soon, breaking certain tools and workflows. I don't think this is an issue. Apple has been fairly straight about timelines and people who want to stick with Intel have plenty of time and options to get their stuff in a row in advance. More important, Apple fixed most of the major irritations with the MacBook Pro. If they hadn't launched the 16" MBP last year,…

Big Sur has me more worried about iOS-ification than ever before. The UI is a train wreck. It looks designed for touch and I have no idea why. I guess Sidecar? They changed a ton about the UI in Big Sur, none of it for the better as far as I can tell. They took away even more choice, I can't have a "classic" desktop experience. My biggest frustration is that they were willing to make such drastic changes to the deskt…

I quite like the Big Sur UI and definitely don't consider it a train wreck. I've been a Mac user since the PowerBook G4, and the M1 MacBook Air with Big Sur is the best "desktop" computer I've ever owned. I have it connected to a beautiful 32" display, it's fast, silent and I find the UI very usable

I see a strong vision in Big Sur, one that pulls macOS visually into line with iOS, but there are a lot of rough edges right now. Especially with some Catalyst apps bringing iOS paradigms onto Mac. Even Apple's Catalyst apps (News in particular) are just gross, can't even change the font size with a keyboard shortcut

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