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Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

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Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

#361

Post by calvano915 »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #195
robert_foss wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if unions are affecting no change, their are able to give the workers at least some power. Who knows, maybe they'll make Amazon to allow unmetered bathroom breaks one day.

Bathroom breaks aren't metered in Amazon warehouses.

Besides using your own break time to go, they are absolutely metered for many direct roles in the exact sense that using the restroom can decrease your speed performance metrics which can lead to progressive coaching or other negative consequences.

It literally is considered time off task (TOT) when you stop for a restroom break outside of your scheduled break times.

There is always the option for people with increased medical restroom needs to seek specific accommodations to essentially excuse the TOT for their needs.

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

#362

Post by galfarragem »

random5634 wrote: post #21
simpixelated wrote: post #5

Along with the unionization at Google, I think it's a good trend to see them happening at big tech companies. As it says in the article: "Unions are a prominent presence at Amazon in Europe, but the company for years successfully fought off labor organizing efforts in the U.S." It's sad that Amazon, along with FB and Google, etc. have managed to squash unions so completely here in the US. There's a lot of propaganda…

The propaganda unfortunately also comes from folks direct experience with unions. In the US, most unions are public sector. So folks see that Police unions may protect bad apples via union. Teachers unions may care more about teachers including bad ones then teaching kids. We had a famously terrible teacher at my school - unfirable - as kids we thought it was hilarious. As a parent now - not so cool. Non unionized sc…

After summing all factors unions are still a positive influence.

It's undeniable that sectors with strong unions provide better working conditions to employees than comparable sectors without unions.

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

#363

Post by conanbatt »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #301
conanbatt wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The plural of anecdotes is called data. There are plenty of examples of unions being really bad in the US, the burden of proof is now on the other side of the court.

So you need a handful of people to tell you anecdotes of how a union helped them?

I'd welcome the testimony to cross-examine.

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

#364

Post by yostrovs »

ibudiallo wrote: post #314
WalterBright wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Reagan's firing of the air traffic controllers It was illegal for the controllers to strike.

Unless I'm missing something obvious, striking is the only leverage a union has. If striking is illegal, what's their leverage?

Firemen and police officers are also usually not allowed to strike. For the sake of continuation of society.

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

#365

Post by yostrovs »

sircastor wrote: post #348
j_walter wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never fully understood public unions to be honest. Unions used to be the best way to protect yourself from a bad employer...but the employer is the government (and to some extent the people). It used to be that public sector workers made less in exchange for better benefits, but in the last few years the war was waged on the public to increase wages to that of "private companies". Now teachers in my state make m…

I don’t understand this position. Just because some portion of the chain is elected doesn’t mean the management portion of the employer acts differently than anywhere else. Your local school districts comptroller isn’t necessarily working that role because they feel a higher calling in education. Also this “9 months a year” thing is really getting tired. Every teacher I’ve ever met works 60-80 hours a week or more, i…

It fundamentally corrupts democracy when you have unions donating to politicians, and the politicians in turn give more money to unions so that they give more money to politicians. This behavior effectively bypasses voters.

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

#366

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

calvano915 wrote: post #361
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bathroom breaks aren't metered in Amazon warehouses.

Besides using your own break time to go, they are absolutely metered for many direct roles in the exact sense that using the restroom can decrease your speed performance metrics which can lead to progressive coaching or other negative consequences. It literally is considered time off task (TOT) when you stop for a restroom break outside of your scheduled break times. There is always the option for people with increas…

Maybe there’s a confusion of terms here, because I think everything you’re saying is what it means for a bathroom break to be unmetered. You can go to the restroom whenever you’d like, as long as you’re getting the work done. If you had specific declared bathroom breaks where the company keeps count and pauses performance metrics for the duration, that’s what I’d call metered breaks.

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

#367

Post by Thlom »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #310
Thlom wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can the union stop the employer from hiring non-unionized workers?

In most union workplaces, one of the first contract demands is exclusivity, where the employer can only hire members. This is referred to as a " closed shop" [1] When a closed shop forms, works have a choice to join or leave. Some places allow non-union workers, but they must pay part of their salary to the union. This is called and "agency shop" [2] For example, if you become a police officer and do not choose to jo…

Interesting. I believe this would be illegal in my country (Norway). There's often only one union, but membership is entirely voluntary (and you don't have to pay fees if you are not a member). I think the only trade where membership levels is close to 100% is the elevator fitter union which is known to be a very strong and "militant" union.

But I think the main reason why we have higher unionization rate in Europe especially northern Europe/Scandinavia is that the relationship between labour and capital is almost legalized. There's rules in place that dictate when tariffs should be negotiated and how they are negotiated, what kind of leverage the parties can use and when they can use it. In other words, the relationship between labor unions and employer organizations are regulated. Seems to work quite good, but it is a product of history and can probably not be emulated directly somewhere else.

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

#368

Post by Frondo »

WalterBright wrote: post #75
maya24 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a failure of the public education system not unions. It is not as if the governments are trying to push innovative teaching methods and investing more in public education especially for the underprivileged.

There is pretty much zero chance of being elected to the public school board without the union endorsement.

Untrue and a little absurd.

I've personally known three people who got elected to their local school boards without any endorsements at all. They all had big families, literally just a lot of people knocking on doors evening after evening, no prior political experience even.

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

#369

Post by Frondo »

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #222
myownpetard wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Democratic Party is too large of an umbrella these days. Anybody whose primary concerns are among fiscal responsibility/the deficit, public education, effective foreign policy, civil rights, human rights, political corruption, science based public health/policy, climate change, domestic extremism, an independent judiciary etc. has moved into the democratic party. The Republican Party is for people whose primary c…

Have you ever talked to a single Republican? You’re way off base, especially with the race baiting.

Entirely anecdotal, of course, but several of my republican relatives (big family) moved to Idaho a year and change ago -- shortly before the covid era.

The last family gathering we all had together, pre-covid thanksgiving, they all spent much of the time telling me how I had to "be afraid" of Mexicans and Arabs for a variety of reasons. I'm kind of dumb in social situations and kind of polite so I just stood there entirely unsure how I should even respond to that.

have I talked to a single republican? I've talked to several that I'd known all my life, who all came out with the race baiting stuff.

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

#370

Post by rrrrrrrrrrrryan »

franczesko wrote: post #306
CobrastanJorji wrote: post #2

I wonder what percentage of otherwise very liberal Amazon devs read sentences like "The company for years successfully fought off labor organizing efforts in the U.S." and come away thinking "we're definitely the good guys."

The harsh truth is that RSUs stand higher in the list of priorities, than other people's problems.

RSUs are an effective way for workers to get a better chunk of the actual value they create.

The negotiating power of unions is another.

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