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Stripe bans Trump campaign

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Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#361

Bad idea IMO, the Internet doesn't forget. Why would anyone choose Stripe over another payment processor now when Stripe comes with the additional risk of being banned at a whim for whatever political/ideological/opportunistic virtue-signalling reason? It's not like they have a monopoly like Apple and Google with their respective App Stores. The same goes for AWS, it's just irresponsible to use it now.

> being banned at a whim

The President of the United States just incited insurrection because he lost the election.

This is not a case of somebody being "banned at a whim".

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Portland, Seattle, Minneapolis, and many other US cities saw mobs attempting (and in some cases, succeeding) in burning down police precincts and courthouses this summer.

You've subtly avoided answering the question I asked. As far as I know, there was one (abandoned) police precinct burned. Was the burning of an abandoned building avocation for violence against police officers?

If you need me to explain to you how mobs attempting to burn down police and court buildings is indicative of advocating violence towards police officers, then you've got bigger problems then your misreading of my response.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#363
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should probably look up what the hallmarks of fascism are sometime. It might surprise you.

Replying to Chrissnell comment which seems to be flagged. I agree with your sentiment, and I was there on slashdot in those times. Even though I have nothing for or against the political events happening in the USA. I fear that all these companies are using what happened as a pretext to stop giving service to people with different ideas. Twitter censoring trump is OK. Reddit censoring some channels is OK. But blockin…

Does anyone know why AWS hasn't kicked off Parler yet? Is this a hard decision for Bezos?

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's so interesting when people cheer on censorship because, don't worry, they've been convinced that it's good censorship. Still doesn't change what it is though. I'm sure anybody that's been censored, dehumanized, and removed from society by an evil regime has been comforted by the fact that the people doing it think it's fine to do it, or because the people doing it are doing it legally. Those facts don't make it…

I have a feeling that at least half of people here are using the free market argument ironically. Because until last week it was usually republicans who advocated for the free market, no government regulation, and believing that markets sort themselves out magically. And now they are angry when the free market is going in the direction they don't like.

There are cartel and monopoly arguments to be made that are based on maintaining an efficient free market. This is generally a bipartisan issue, but the sides are taking turns on it.

Of course Stripe does not have a monopoly, but the broader discussion involves major players that can function as a cartel.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#365

There is a difference between bank accounts, Visa/MasterCard access and Internet service, on one hand, and App Stores, Twitter accounts and payment providers, on the other hand. The First Amendment promises both free speech and free assembly. Core to the latter is the freedom not to assemble. This freedom is regulated. You can’t refuse to do business with protected classes. But political affiliation is not a protecte…

How is AWS anything like an “utility”? There are hundreds of viable hosting options for large sites.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#366
post #26

The people cheering this on will not be protected when the mob comes for you. We live in a digital age. If having the wrong opinion means you can get your bank accounts and all Internet presence removed from you, it's not any different than living under a fascist government.

[deleted]

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My objection to that argument is that the companies claim that the content on the website isn't their speech when invoking Section 230, then claim that it is their speech in order to invoke the First Amendment. Section 230 says: > No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be treated as the publisher or speaker of any information provided by another information content provider. So how can a company…

Section 230 is irrelevant to the discussion in this case[1]. Section 230 refers to the ability of one party to sue over the speech of a third party. That's not in play here at all. Rather, this is about freedom of association. Stripe can associate (do business, in this case) with whom it chooses (with some restrictions[2], but this isn't one of them), and that freedom of association is protected by the constitution[0…

Sorry, I thought this discussion was on a different post. You're right, the argument above doesn't apply to Stripe.

Instead, I would respond that freedom of association is considerably more limited than other rights. Soldiers, students, jurors, prisoners, etc are often forced into association with people they would rather not associate with, and businesses are legally forced into association to protect the rights of other people. When there is a conflict between freedom of association and other rights or government interests, freedom of association rarely prevails.

So forcing businesses to associate with someone in order to protect fair elections or free speech rights wouldn't be incongruous.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spare us your outrage. A literal mob just overran the Capitol. Attempting to talk about “the mob” in opposition to the actual mobs that are continuing to take over Capitol buildings is frankly so tone deaf it’s almost insulting to our intelligence.

I'm tired of people who have only read one book in their entire lives (1984) trying to explain to me how banning Trump is going to lead to an angry leftist mob throwing me in jail (because leftists have power right?) for speaking.

Poor Orwell must be rolling in his grave. Maybe we should wrap him in copper for free power?

For the record, Orwell was a leftist. Yes, 1984 was a warning about the USSR, which he hated, but the idea that he was warning about creeping leftism in general turning into authoritarianism is to really misunderstand him.

For the record, he hated the authoritarian right just as hard as he hated the authoritarian left, possibly more so. He participated in the Spanish civil war, following his own advice that everyone pick up a rifle and shoot a fascist. He was wounded in action by a sniper bullet to the throat.

By the terms of his place and time, he considered himself a libertarian (that word later came to be a right wing phenomenon in America, self consciously co-opted from the left). We’d typically call him a democratic socialist; someone who wanted the government to help solve the “social problem” (where the term “socialism” partially comes from) of poverty and what not, but he was also wary about giving too much power of the government to control people.

He was a complex guy with even more complex political opinions. Sadly our Cold War fueled reading of 1984 has flattened out a lot of his nuance from him.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#369
post #26

The people cheering this on will not be protected when the mob comes for you. We live in a digital age. If having the wrong opinion means you can get your bank accounts and all Internet presence removed from you, it's not any different than living under a fascist government.

I see where you are coming from, but I do not agree that they are being punished just for “having the wrong opinion”.

The Trump campaign just attempted a coup. As in they attempted to seize control of the government by stopping the lawful transition of power. That it failed does not make it any less serious. Should we let them continue to try until the are successful? Let’s not repeat the mistakes of 1920s Germany.[0]

I do not think it is hyperbole to say that Trump and his ilk are fascists, not unlike the Nazis.[1] They are the mob that is coming for you.[2] Do not make the mistake of failing to believe these people when they tell you who they are and what they are about.

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_Hall_Putsch [1] https://images.app.goo.gl/BxMXjGz7Zjsa1G6Q8 [2] https://twitter.com/59dallas/status/1346963199778828290?s=21

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replying to Chrissnell comment which seems to be flagged. I agree with your sentiment, and I was there on slashdot in those times. Even though I have nothing for or against the political events happening in the USA. I fear that all these companies are using what happened as a pretext to stop giving service to people with different ideas. Twitter censoring trump is OK. Reddit censoring some channels is OK. But blockin…

Does anyone know why AWS hasn't kicked off Parler yet? Is this a hard decision for Bezos?

AWS laid out the timeline in their letter to Parler:

> "Because Parler cannot comply with our terms of service and poses a very real risk to public safety, we plan to suspend Parler’s account effective Sunday, January 10th, at 11:59PM PST."

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/johnpaczkowski/amazon-p...

According to my watch, it's a few minutes past 17:30 PST.

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