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WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

arstechnica.com

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Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#361

Post by madhadron »

7v3x3n3sem9vv wrote: post #331
tobib wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why I'm still sceptical of Signal. It's free as well, paid for by donations but still. At the end of the day I'm not the one paying directly for the service I'm using.

Signal is "owned" by a non-profit. They can't be sold to a for profit, they learned their lessons from WhatsApp. Lastly, Signal doesn't collect/store any of your data on their infrastructure other than a few hashes required for operation. WhatsApp/facebook on the other hand collect, and likely keep, forever, at much metadata about you as possible. The only way to pay for this free storage is to stay more data so they…

Signal also writes the encryption that WhatsApp and Duo use.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#362

Post by 7v3x3n3sem9vv »

bigiain wrote: post #76
foofoo4u wrote: post #54

I'd like to move my family off of WhatsApp due to these concerns. I've used Signal before, but I am not a big fan of it. I often have to re-register my devices to sign in, syncing takes a long time, and conversations do not persist across devices. I am perfectly happy using a paid service. Does anyone here think Discord or Slack would be a suitable replacement?

> or Slack would be a suitable replacement Jumping out of the Facebook frypan into the Salesforce fire doesn't seem to be a particularly winning move... (Which also raises the question, whichever alternative you choose, you probably need to evaluate the risk of Facebook (or some equally evil corp) acquiring them down the track. I wonder how likely Discord/Telegram/Signal are to be able to resist Facebook-sized acquis…

Signal is owned by a non-profit which cannot be sold to a for-profit like Facebook, Google, or Apple. The WhatsApp founder learned the lessons from the Facebook acquisition and improved almost every aspect when developing Signal.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#363

Post by mr_toad »

FalconSensei wrote: post #167
st1x7 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem isn't silos, it's lack of privacy. Signal solves that problem.

Signal isn't 100% private: you need a phone number, and you can't use on a computer unless you install the app on the phone first.

It’s not anonymous, but anonymity isn’t equivalent to privacy.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#364

Post by mr_toad »

judge2020 wrote: post #87
nickcw wrote: post #74

How about pay $1 / year to opt out of all data sharing? I foolishly installed the Facebook app on Android for a while. When I asked for a data dump from Facebook I was amazed at the amount of data it had stolen from my phone, including full contacts list. It sounds like that is exactly what Facebook are planning with WhatsApp. I'd pay $1 / year to opt out of that and be the customer rather than the product.

$1 a year is super low. YouTube values their ads at approximately $12 a month[0] - FB can’t be much less. (E: 12, not 18. 18 is for families) 0: https://YouTube.com/premium

Facebook doesn’t make $12 per user per month last time I checked. They have about 80b revenue from 2.5 billion users.

Maybe in the US they might get that per user, but not worldwide.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#365

Post by 7v3x3n3sem9vv »

bigiain wrote: post #106
_ink_ wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the UI is better. Encryption is worse. But I like how they structured their data centers. They have sprinkled them into different countries and they claim that servers from different jurisdictions are necessary to access the data. So if an agency wants to access it, they have to get warrants from different countries. With all the war on encryption going on, e.g. forcing companies to include backdoors, I think…

> They have sprinkled them into different countries and they claim that servers from different jurisdictions are necessary to access the data. So if an agency wants to access it, they have to get warrants from different countries. That's a neat trick, but not as neat as Signal's "sure, here's all the data we have - the time and ip address of their last use." (I'm sure a bunch of the "better UX, UI, and features" peop…

Close! Signal only keeps the date a number registered and the last day it contacted their servers.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/10/fbi-demands-sign...

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#366

Post by Blikkentrekker »

frereubu wrote: post #22

I'd love to give up WhatsApp, but network effects are key here. I tried moving my extended family off WhatsApp onto Signal a couple of years ago and it failed miserably because the app wasn't nearly as easy to use, and they had all their friends on Whatsapp. Has anyone here had any success moving a large group of people onto something like Signal or Telegram? If so, do you have any tips?

Such implicit locks are quite common a hamper to let the best product succeed.

We are all running what most would consider an outdated and poorly designed c.p.u. architecture by modern standards, simply because most software is not compiled to run on other architectures, and it won't be until those architectures see significant adoption.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#368

Post by majjam »

frereubu wrote: post #22

I'd love to give up WhatsApp, but network effects are key here. I tried moving my extended family off WhatsApp onto Signal a couple of years ago and it failed miserably because the app wasn't nearly as easy to use, and they had all their friends on Whatsapp. Has anyone here had any success moving a large group of people onto something like Signal or Telegram? If so, do you have any tips?

I moved family and friends quite successfully over once I’d had a child and told them that I didn’t want any photos sharing on facebooks platforms.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#369

Post by ptero »

Zelphyr wrote: post #285

It has been said that companies that build rely too heavily on the public, free API’s of another service are doomed when that service decides to monetize those API’s. See, for example, API users of Google Maps. I think we are now at the point where this applies to individuals. If a person or group of people rely too heavily on a single free service then they’re going to feel pain when that service finally decides to…

There are different models claiming free stuff.

One is a google-style lock into an ecosystem of free apps that a company can monetize at any time. Stay away if possible: the users will be milked sooner or later.

The other is openstreetmap-style set of free data that anyone can download anytime, plus some apps (maybe free, maybe not) using it for some function. I see no problem with it as the lock-in is highly unlikely because the main feature (say, map data) is always available. My 2c.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#370

Post by esperent »

lifty wrote: post #207
jsinai wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure the network effect is strong but let’s not forget how WhatsApp got here in the first place: people installing a strange new app, often shared by their friends via a text message invite link. I remember sitting in a circle with a group of friends one night 10+ years ago while each of us installed WhatsApp and had our first conversations on the app. It was a time when BBM was dominant and cross-platform messaging…

Whatsapp had to compete with SMS, so when I was introduced to WhatsApp I thought it was a godsend and immediately adopted it. Also advertised it to all my friends. Switching now might be harder because there is a lot less to gain, besides some non-tangible “privacy”. What is this thing called “privacy”?

Even my mother, in her 70s, who somehow always manages to have a new virus or piece of crapware on her laptop every time I visit, knows about the importance of this thing called "privacy" and had no trouble grasping the idea that everything she shares on FB is recorded and used for advertising.

It's not a hard concept, and it's not just tech people who care about it. It doesn't require any knowledge of tech to understand.

On the other hand, she knows how to use FB messenger and my efforts to get her to switch to email/telegram have just caused confusion so far.

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