Facebook senior software engineer interview • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook senior software engineer interview

#361

Post by sockgrant » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 8:06 PM UTC

conorh wrote: post #20

Every time I read these posts I find them very depressing. Crunch through an enormous bunch of algorithm problems in order to perform well on some unrealistic whiteboard programming (I think the system engineering problems are actually more useful though) - as usual we've focused on the easy to measure metric rather than anything actually useful. Maybe these things are meant to be a proxy for how good you are at othe…

HN loves to hate FAANG interviews. There's always a monthly passion post about how flawed they are.

I don't think it's unfair to say that Google and FB are considered to have strong engineering talent. So the interview process has to have _some_ hand in that success, even if it's also turning away some would-be strong performers.

I'm not saying the interview process shouldn't be criticized or that it's beyond improvement. And, yeah, it's a little silly to go memorize a bunch of algorithms so you can recite them on the stop. Furthermore, so many interview questions are posted on leetcode... and there's so many more flaws to be pointed out, but in spite of that, they still manage to have a high engineering bar.

But if you only read HN you'd think it's a total failure.

Re: Facebook senior software engineer interview

#362

Post by pvfffghhr » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 8:09 PM UTC

conorh wrote: post #20

Every time I read these posts I find them very depressing. Crunch through an enormous bunch of algorithm problems in order to perform well on some unrealistic whiteboard programming (I think the system engineering problems are actually more useful though) - as usual we've focused on the easy to measure metric rather than anything actually useful. Maybe these things are meant to be a proxy for how good you are at othe…

On the other hand, learning algorithms is probably more fun than the actual work at Facebook.

Re: Facebook senior software engineer interview

#363

Post by ratorx » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 8:14 PM UTC

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #65

conorh wrote: post #20

Every time I read these posts I find them very depressing. Crunch through an enormous bunch of algorithm problems in order to perform well on some unrealistic whiteboard programming (I think the system engineering problems are actually more useful though) - as usual we've focused on the easy to measure metric rather than anything actually useful. Maybe these things are meant to be a proxy for how good you are at othe…

After 20 years in software, I had a phone interview with an Amazon guy who sounded half my age (at most). Asked me to write some kind of function to do something, sort some stuff or some such. I described verbally how I would do it, almost line by line, in pseudo-code. He said "I need you to write it out in [some language]". I said "But why? I just told you how I'd do it." But he needed me to literally write the code…

I wouldn’t blame the specific engineer for this too much (for asking you to write down the code). If Amazon is the same as Google, then there is a lot done to standardise interview scoring. Part of the guidance given to interviewers is to make sure that the candidate has produced actual “working” code. The code is included in the interview feedback that the interviewer writes.

Source: Interview trained at Google

Re: Facebook senior software engineer interview

#364

Post by VRay » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 8:14 PM UTC

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #211

avl999 wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I have sympathy for the idea that some of these interviews can be ridiculous, however it doesn't seem like the interviewer was in the wrong here. As an interviewee you should have known what interview process is like, I worked at Amazon and I know the recruiters brief the candidates on what to expect in the interview, so you should have known going in that you'd be expected to write code, you could have said no…

They didn't brief me to expect that. Or, to be fair, maybe they did and I missed it. I didn't mention above that he refused to answer a couple of basic questions (what type of work is it? what language? where will the job be? can I be remote?) until he got through the script. It was like talking to a machine. And he was rude. I got a negative impression. I know, sometimes recruits are expected to put up with some rud…

Yeah, you're getting a lot of pushback from the corporate drones on here, but you 100% made the right call. If you want to be a part of the FAANG hive mind, you have to be willing to jump through a bunch of hoops. The job itself is mostly just cranking out/maintaining a bunch of boring backend plumbing for boring stuff, with little to no correlation between the value you bring to the company and your compensation. Saved the company a million bucks a year? "Great, here's a $25,000 bonus." Saved the company a million bucks a year, but your VP lost a fight with another VP? "You're just not a team player, no bonus this year"

Re: Facebook senior software engineer interview

#365

Post by ttam » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 8:19 PM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #329

gowld wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not appropriate behavior for HN. There was no affiliate link in the original post. ref= is not an affiliate tag, it's an Amazon ref tag. tag= is an affiliate tag. https://google.com/search?q=amazon+affiliate+code+url https://medium.com/feedium/how-to-tell-if-a-link-is-an-amazo...

I checked before I posted and found two web sites that stated that ref= is an affiliate tag.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B008GRDKPG expands to https://www.amazon.com/Disciplined-Minds-Professionals-Soul-...

are you really claiming that "redir_mobile_desktop" or anything afterwards is an affiliate tag?

Re: Facebook senior software engineer interview

#366

Post by blisterpeanuts » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 8:23 PM UTC

justapassenger wrote: post #332

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never stated that I felt "insulted". You're just projecting that, maybe based on bad experiences you have had. There's an old saying: a job interview is a two-way street. You are interviewing them (or should be) every bit as much as they are you. If the applicant asks a basic question about the position, the interviewer has a duty to either answer the question or say "I'm not sure what role this is for; I've just b…

Original comment started by stating your many years of experience and noting that interviewer was much younger. Then complains about being asked to do coding. And then, based on just those two, saying that you know you'd be unhappy working with people like him. Amazon isn't great environment in most of the pockets of the company (haven't worked there, but worked with a lot of people who came from there), so it's quit…

I didn't state that I had issues with his age. I merely observed that he was probably half my age; he talked and behaved rather immaturely.

I work with younger folks all the time and 90% of them are perfectly fine; actually I enjoy their energy and drive (and there are plenty of older jerks out there). This guy, I didn't enjoy. When I hung up the phone, I was not angry, as I recall. Just disappointed that a great company would have such petty people vetting applicants. You don't have to agree with me. I'm not even sure what we're arguing about at this point; if you're just trying to prove I'm a jerk... fine, I was a jerk that day. Happy now? Have a nice day. I don't work at Amazon and I'm having a wonderful day :)

Re: Facebook senior software engineer interview

#367

Post by spoonjim » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 8:24 PM UTC

pc86 wrote: post #290

driverdan wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a poor analogy. It's like making a soccer / football player answer a test on the history of the sport, how the ball is made, the geometry involved in kicking the ball, the mesh size of the goal net, etc. There may be some relevance but in the end if they're a good player none of that matters. You'd be testing the wrong things to know if they're a good player.

I think this is an equally poor analogy as it assumes Facebook wants to hire all the good people it can, which isn't the case at all. Facebook is trying to limit false positives. They would rather deny 10 world-class developers than hire one person they need to fire 6 months later. Facebook, who is paying a lot of people to optimize its hiring processes, has found a correlation between the objective of "lower short-t…

Also the big tech companies only need "world class" developers in under 10% of their positions. Reducing latency on Oculus Rift? OK you need a Carmack. Building a compliance portal for some new law passed in Kerblachistan? A lot of people can do that, and a company like Facebook has a lot more of the second type of problem than the first.

Re: Facebook senior software engineer interview

#368

Post by blisterpeanuts » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 8:27 PM UTC

vechagup wrote: post #347

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't brief me to expect that. Or, to be fair, maybe they did and I missed it. I didn't mention above that he refused to answer a couple of basic questions (what type of work is it? what language? where will the job be? can I be remote?) until he got through the script. It was like talking to a machine. And he was rude. I got a negative impression. I know, sometimes recruits are expected to put up with some rud…

> he also seemed unwilling to push at all, just said "okay!" in a sing-song voice that implied "yeah whatever, go die" Is the idea here that you wanted the interviewer to beg you to stay on the call? I interview for a BigCo. Most of us do it not because we love interviewing but because 1) It's a way to check the "citizenship" box on performance reviews. 2) A director or VP sent a mass email exhorting us to join the i…

I mean, yeah, you're probably right. I might have stayed on the call if he'd explained why the actual code was necessary, could even have met me halfway by saying "Yeah, I know it's kind of silly, but it's a requirement. Would you mind doing this, and then we can get on to more interesting stuff?" Or something like that, but he didn't have any kind of friendly or diplomatic response, maybe I was feeling impatient that day; I honestly can't remember because this was like 10 years ago.

Re: Facebook senior software engineer interview

#369

Post by blisterpeanuts » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 8:31 PM UTC

paxys wrote: post #302

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After 20 years in software, I had a phone interview with an Amazon guy who sounded half my age (at most). Asked me to write some kind of function to do something, sort some stuff or some such. I described verbally how I would do it, almost line by line, in pseudo-code. He said "I need you to write it out in [some language]". I said "But why? I just told you how I'd do it." But he needed me to literally write the code…

Why is the fact that the interviewer was half your age relevant? I interview and reject senior engineers with 20+ years of experience every day. They are extremely good at throwing out the right buzzwords and sounding smart, but digging a bit further it's obvious that they have spent the latter part of their career playing politics at large companies rather than doing any real engineering work. A simple FizzBuzz is e…

Yes, a simple FizzBuzz can certainly weed out people who aren't very good at playing the FizzBuzz game.

Re: Facebook senior software engineer interview

#370

Post by zls » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 8:38 PM UTC

I recently interviewed at Facebook with ~10yrs experience. I didn't get an offer. Their process was really quite rudimentary compared to the other companies I interviewed at, namely Google who I see as their most direct competitor for engineering talent.

* Every single coding problem was about iterating over a string or an array and doing something with it. Seemed like there was no coordination at all on what's being asked from one interviewer to the next. For a senior infra engineer interview I'd expect them to touch on concurrency, or service architecture, or recursion, or debugging, or... anything besides strings and arrays (which I'm good at!).

* The system design question they asked me was about how to design a frontend feature for live-updating comment chains. I understand the ideal that the questions are so high-level that it's an even playing field regardless of background, but the reality is that every problem is going to be close to _someone's_ domain and far from someone else's. I wish they had chose something at least related to infrastructure services, because I don't even know the 101 on how social media frontends work.

* The interviews didn't include any time for me to ask meaningful questions of the interviewers. I was assigned to engineers at random, rather than based on where I'd likely be working.

* None of the interviewers conveyed any enthusiasm about giving the interview. I could tell that speaking to me was a chore distracting them from what they wanted to be doing.

Overall the process felt haphazard and low-effort, like I was Candidate #24601 in the machine for the week. Stark contrast to Google, where the interviews left me _more_ excited about working there, despite Google being more than twice Facebook's size. Fortunately I didn't get the job so I didn't even have to ponder any ethics questions :^)