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Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

freedom.press

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Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#361

Post by thegrim33 »

sneak wrote: post #296
outworlder wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We try to reason about the world. When the world appears to be unjust and we feel powerless to change, we (humans) tend to fabricate justifications for the actions of others. So that we feel better about themselves and we can move on thinking bad things won't happen to us. This is how you see someone getting beaten during an arrest and people are like "but this guy was once arrested for such and such". The assumption…

It's a tough reality check for a lot of people who grow up in the US, thinking it's a free country with equal protection of the law, when they realize that there are at least two tiers of protected overclasses (wealthy landowners, and the police) to which only subsets of the law applies in practice (to say nothing of the underclasses who are routinely beaten, robbed, and killed, with no consequences for the attackers…

These are pretty outrageous claims you're making, and you'll notice that the people making such claims never have evidence to back it up. Your viewpoints are grounded in thousands of other people in the same echo chamber as you repeating the same claims as a cultural weapon to gain political power, but there's never anything backing it up. I don't care how many people you've convinced to hold these beliefs, it doesn't make it true.

You say that I want to reject contradictory evidence, but you never provide the contradictory evidence. Having a bunch of people convinced that the police are evil isn't contradictory evidence. Having people repeat your viewpoint isn't proof that the viewpoint is correct.

For an extraordinary claim you need extraordinary evidence. For something like your anti-police sentiment (which is funny because now all of the sudden nearly all police are evil, in all states, all counties, no matter the gender or race breakdown of the police, no matter what city/county/state/department laws and procedures are, all of the sudden police are all just evil? That's curious isn't it?) it isn't backed up by evidence. You can link to videos alleging "police brutality" but none of them that I've ever been linked to show such a thing. Of course mistakes are made, when there's millions of interactions between citizens and police every day, a one in a million or even one in a billion mistake still happens, humans aren't perfect. But for the claims you're making there should be extraordinary evidence, and there isn't any.

Now, somebody else in the world will read your comment and in some part incorporate it into their viewpoint, and repeat it elsewhere, just propagating the idea further.

Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#362

Post by the_only_law »

suifbwish wrote: post #345
user764743 wrote: post #144

Reading the comments in this thread and I am amazed at the sudden pro-authoritarian shift seen on HN lately, what's going on?

Pretty simple. Most of us have jobs, follow the law and do not recommend others break it either.

Except when it comes to things that directly benefit them ofc (i.e piracy)

Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#363

Post by f154hfds »

jimmygrapes wrote: post #302
dgritsko wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So here's the dilemma I'm faced with. As someone who wishes to consume news that is as factual as reasonably possible, while also being aware that at least some bias is inevitable (no matter how well-intentioned the author may be)... how does one evaluate a news source for its trustworthiness, short of physically observing an event for yourself?

Others have given great responses, but one thing not emphasized enough is recognizing the type of language used. It failed for various reasons, but The Knife used to do a textual analysis of articles and point out the manipulative language used. A quick example off the top of my head is recent reporting on the US election (all paraphrased, but I bet you can find real examples easily): "... baseless claims" "... witho…

This. This. This.

I'll throw in a few other ideas:

1. 'Opinion' panels should come from both sides of the political isle. Thoughtful panelists should be able to get to the bottom of ideas (instead of getting caught up in partisan minutiae). If they can't have a good discussion they shouldn't be on the panel.

2. Recommendation algorithms _must_ attempt to diversify a user's taste rather than silo them. This is an ethical issue and may hurt the bottom line.

3. Journalists should fundamentally believe bare facts speak for themselves and trust their readership to make the right conclusions. It is patronizing to have it any other way.

4. Context is key - sound bytes and cheap twitter drama are destroying journalistic integrity. Journalism is archaeology of the now. It should be treated with the rigor of a science. Have some respect for yourselves and we will do the same!

Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#364

Post by thegrim33 »

astura wrote: post #223
user764743 wrote: post #144

Reading the comments in this thread and I am amazed at the sudden pro-authoritarian shift seen on HN lately, what's going on?

It's truly scary times we live in... It feels like the entire word has developed an authorization bend. The United States has a sitting president who is attempting a self-coup with the majority of the legislatures in his party supporting it, or at least not condemning it. It's just... shocking.

You make your claims as if it was fact and yet it isn't. Millions of people in the United States think you're completely brainwashed. The same way as somebody a few years ago that was freaking out that Obama was building work camps to force all gun owners into. For somebody outside of your echo chamber your viewpoints sound ridiculous.

Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#365

Post by im3w1l »

dragontamer wrote: post #312
im3w1l wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She herself says that they were "indiscriminate" and that they didn't care whether she was media or not. You are trying to make a big narrative that your video doesn't support.

The first thing Police Officer#1 does when the line breaks is rush over to the cameraman and punches the camerman in the face. Its pretty clear from Officer#1's actions that he did not like that camera. ---------- Here's an alternative angle, in case you're confused by the 1st person perspective: https://www.abc.net.au/cm/rimage/12312456-16x9-xlarge.png?v=... It is very clear that this officer is attacking the camera…

This angle is much clearer, yes.

Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#366

Post by tick_tock_tick »

bostonvaulter2 wrote: post #188
trident5000 wrote: post #100

Anyone with an iphone and a youtube account is now a “journalist” and frankly theyre not far off in credibility from corporate. Thats where the bar is at. So the datapoints have shifted

That's not the definition being used here: > “While we recognize the importance and the rights of the private citizen who snaps a photo or video of an arrest, this site will only cover individuals who self-identify as journalists and have some track record of journalistic work.“

So people that have been uploading to youtube for multiple days?

Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#368

Post by 9HZZRfNlpR »

obelos wrote: post #111
anonfornoreason wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Portland and watched many of these press people via Twitter. The reality is that many of these “press” are activists who document their activism and the activism of their comrades. They call themselves press, but they are press+activist. As a result they are often in the crowd of people throwing stuff at police, while screaming “hey you fucking fascist, aren’t you embarassed to be an authoritarian?” I am no…

Impartiality is not a defining attribute of journalism. Having and expressing opinions (when not immediately involved in a scene), setting an editorial slant, and being embedded in events are not counter-journalistic practices. Journalists are “neutral” only in the sense that they seek to observe and not to alter the events as they unfold. In many situations this is not tenable in any absolute degree, but the indepen…

Whay on earth? Objectivity is considered to one of main principles of journalism in the west, even in America where they are not even trying but nevertheless.

Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#369

Post by tick_tock_tick »

867-5309 wrote: post #328
mosdave wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Would you say people aren't software developers unless they are employed by a company to predominately develop software? Yes, without question. It's tautological.

what about unemployed/retired software developers, and open source contributors?

Doesn't the fact that you had to use different language to communicate their status lead into their point?

Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#370

Post by Manfredo_1 »

smnrchrds wrote: post #359
Manfredo_1 wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What unlawful purpose did the police had in mind when they arrested the journalists is of very little effect and does not warrant a discussion. Then please edit the comment to which I originally responded to correctly state that they were arrested for violating an order to disperse. If it's of such little effect then surely you would be fine with making this modest change, correct?

> correctly state that they were arrested for violating an order to disperse. My understanding of the situation is that they were arrested because the police wanted them arrested, plain and simple. Not because they ignored any order, but because the police had the power and the will, though not the legal right, to punish them. I am going to stop responding to your comments as you do not argue in good faith.

> My understanding of the situation is that they were arrested because the police wanted them arrested, plain and simple. Not because they ignored any order, but because the police had the power and the will, though not the legal right, to punish them.

At least we're progressing from "he was arrested for filming" to "police wanted to arrest him" and speculating why.

But we don't need to rely on speculation: The reporter asked why they were being arrested. The police responded that they were arrested because they didn't disperse from an area when they were told to do so. And plenty of people who weren't filming were also arrested. And the nowhere in the CNN article you originally linked to did it claim that their journalist was arrested for filming.

I'm not just taking the police at their word, I'm comparing the police's words to what happened. And it's entirely consistent with what happened. If the police arrested the reporter, and only the reporter then a causal link between filming and the arrest would be more plausible. But the police were arresting other people who were refusing to disperse, too, so their reason is more consistent with the events that occurred as compared to your claim that the police were arresting people for filming.

At this point I, too, have concluded I'm not talking to someone arguing in good faith. You're making an assertion based on preconceived notion about how the police behave and operate, ignoring the fact that this isn't at all consistent with the events that transpired, and accusing people who point this out of arguing in good faith. There isn't anything more to discuss here.

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