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M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

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Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t just go and make ever part of your chip architecture wider by being clever. Well, there was probably some cleverness involved, but it’s not like this has been a one-off trick.

This is Apple we are talking about. The last 20 years have been tricks.

Hehe, i see what you did here ;)

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#362
post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely agree with regards the closed platform. I switched to Linux for my development machine for a few years now. And, using something else than i3(or any other tilling window managers) seems like a step down. I like instant switching between workspaces, splits, no animations. And I'll be looking for a good laptop next year, when everything returns back to normal, and I might have to travel. And will put Linux o…

The last I heard, Linux is not coming to M1 unless Apple opens up on technical specifications.

https://patreon.com/marcan

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#363

I don't care about any Apple products, but I really do hope that M1 will force all other manufacturers ship good ARM laptops. Or force Intel and AMD to pull a rabit out of their hat to match the performance/watt of ARM chips. I want long battery life, no fans and a lot of memory. Running Linux. If M1 is the catalyst to make it happen, then so be it.

Linus said no to Linux on M1.

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#364

I don't care about any Apple products, but I really do hope that M1 will force all other manufacturers ship good ARM laptops. Or force Intel and AMD to pull a rabit out of their hat to match the performance/watt of ARM chips. I want long battery life, no fans and a lot of memory. Running Linux. If M1 is the catalyst to make it happen, then so be it.

Linus said no to Linux on M1.

The parent comment doesn't say it has to be M1, just that M1 could be the push to make it happen elsewhere.

(also, even if it were about on M1, Linus said he thinks its unlikely, other qualified people disagree)

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#365
post #100

I've never owned a Mac and don't intend to own one but I'm very happy with this M1 move, mainly for the reasons highlighted in the introduction to the article: >M1 Macs embarrass all other PCs — all Intel-based Macs, including automobile-priced Mac Pros, and every single machine running Windows or Linux. Those machines are just standing around in their underwear now because the M1 stole all their pants. I think it's…

> I think it's a bit unfair to lump Linux in there since it's been running on ARM and other embedded, low-power devices basically forever, but it is true that few of us run our Linux desktop on an ARM board. We aren't running ARM on our desktops because there aren't ARM desktops for us to use. The market jumps from low-end boards like the Pi and Pine's lineups - which are excellent for what they are, but suffer from…

The ThunderX is also, what, 4-5 years old now? There are no ThunderX3 desktops, are there?

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#366
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't understand the comparison to the iphone and android situation. Because articles like that are pure nonsense. Take the initial paragraphs. We already knew that faster processors don't necessarily run hotter. People are simply conflating higher clock speeds with higher performance, while ignoring all of the ways CPU design optimizes computation. Likewise, we already knew that "emulation" doesn't imply that pe…

Likewise, we already knew that "emulation" doesn't imply that performance will be unbearably slow. Apple’s Rosetta 2 doesn't do emulation ; it translates the x86 code into ARM code on the fly and runs it, which is why most apps run faster on M1 Macs than they do on Intel Macs--and comparably priced PCs. Now that it has happened, we will likely see more from the PC industry. Probably not. If Intel and AMD were capable…

> Apple’s Rosetta 2 doesn't do emulation; it translates the x86 code into ARM code on the fly and runs it

That’s…emulation.

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#367
post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is from wikipedia (under "Exynos"), so apply the appropriate amount of salt: On October 1, 2019, rumors emerged that Samsung had laid off their custom CPU teams at SARC.[21][22][23] On November 1, 2019, Samsung filed a WARN letter with the Texas Workforce Commission, notifying of upcoming layoffs of their SARC CPU team and termination of their custom CPU development.[24] SARC and ACL will still continue developm…

You misunderstood what that means. Samsung is continuing to develop Exynos SoCs using stock Arm CPU cores and AMD GPU cores. This will require fewer people hence the layoff.

Exactly; they do not have their cores anymore, they are going to use ARM's Cortex. So their SoC will be always average at best, by definition. They won't be able to make anything exceptional.

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#368
post #333
post #297

The author is bashing another author for not doing measurements, yet himself declares that m1 beats all the other CPUs, without providing any measurements. With regards to the M1, I'm grateful for a good competition. As this will likely push premium laptop manufactures (Razer, Dell) towards ryzen CPUs, as opposed to using them in cheaper models. Loosening the grip that intel has on them. With Zen3 on mobile, giving a…

> With regards to the M1, I'm grateful for a good competition. As this will likely push premium laptop manufactures (Razer, Dell) towards ryzen CPUs, as opposed to using them in cheaper models. Loosening the grip that intel has on them. In the past this has not been the case due to Intel's anticompetitive practices and while I think it's good to be cautiously optimistic, I would also not be surprised to not see no-co…

This is a unique situation though. Intel is now years behind in their process nodes. Ryzen right now is already significantly better than any Intel CPU. M1 has been released which trounces all of those and PC manufacturers now have to compete with Apple in a way that they haven't really before. I don't remember Apple ever being this competitive in performance and they're going to take the lead once the Macbook Pros are released. The only way for manufacturers to keep up is a top-to-bottom switch to Ryzen.

So I do think we're going to see a big shift towards Ryzen, since I'm not sure how Intel could possibly entice manufacturers to stick with them when they haven't been able to deliver in years.

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#369
post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure about Exynos? They announced the 1080 just a couple of weeks ago and the 2100 is expected next year.

Samsung stopped developing their custom cores. They will still continue making Exynos, but with reference design ARM cores.

Yes, and their SoCs will be as average as Cortex reference implementation can be. They won't be able to make M1-like SoC.

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#370
post #338
post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah John Gruber has really become a shill over the last few years. His article reads like an Apple keynote transcript, everything is magical and amazing, a marvel and mindbogglingly great. No wonder they throw him so many exclusives ;) Yes M1 is great. But it's a closed system (no booting Linux or Windows at this time) and even under macOS you're having even less access to the system's internals than before. Also, A…

Completely agree with regards the closed platform. I switched to Linux for my development machine for a few years now. And, using something else than i3(or any other tilling window managers) seems like a step down. I like instant switching between workspaces, splits, no animations. And I'll be looking for a good laptop next year, when everything returns back to normal, and I might have to travel. And will put Linux o…

I live a double life: Apple for laptops and Linux for desktops (and I'm mostly a Desktop user who manages a lot of Linux servers).

Both platforms have their pluses and minuses. I like to carry ideas between them for my development and environments. Found this extremely fruitful for me over the years.

We ordered a bunch of M1 airs for portability and power efficiency. Will see how it goes.

I personally love both Linux and Apple for laptops but, for the out of the box experience and reliability, Apple is more polished due to integration. My EliteBook has no problems with Linux so far but, when a flawlessly running driver degrades after an update (cough, intel e1000e, cough), it leaves a bad taste in the mouth. OTOH, I'm firstly a Linux guy who prefers and writes GPL software.

Of course YMMV.

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