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‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

nytimes.com

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Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#361

Post by ramraj07 »

roenxi wrote: post #177

> ... an “all star” culture, with mostly young white and Asian men. Up until yesterday I was very confused at how a tech company could be accused of racism while simultaneously having a (presumably) vast over-representation of Asians who - to the surprise of some - are a minority. I have since learned [0] that there are literally a large group of people who have redefined "racism" to "unequal distribution of privileg…

Asian who spent a decade in Texas - numerous occassions where blatantly racist people would consider me as "one of the good ones" and ask questions like "why are Indians so smart?"; There are the good races and then there are the bad ones you see! In fact the racist ones were especially nice to Asians to try to emphasize they're not blindly racist, just against the criminals and illegals!

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#362

Post by adjkant »

wolco2 wrote: post #308
tptacek wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You appear to be arguing with the comment you wish that person had written, not they one they actually wrote. The actual comment is specific about the pattern of problematic comments they observed: * They suggest that Black people are in general SJWs * They attempt to litigate affirmative action rather than the claims in the article * They argue that Black employees passed over for promotion were underqualified. * Th…

The message was I can't believe people made comments with the points above. Everyone should be on the page that racism exists specifically against black people in 2020. I don't think the parent poster was pretending anything the parent-parent poster didn't share.

> The message was I can't believe people made comments with the points above.

Again, where was that said? Disbelief is expressed nowhere in the post.

Even if that was the message, what in the world is the reply adding here?

The post is basically:

- points out the poster is emotionally invested in being discriminated against

- "well racism exists in 2020 idk what to tell you"

- You shouldn't expect people have any sort of productive discussion about the article

All of that is then followed by then saying they misrepresented everything. I'm not even directly tied to this in any way, and that made my blood boil a bit. The first line really sets the tone by leading with an apology, yet posting still. It ends in confusion while contributing nothing and basically saying "well the world is shit, expect it" but also trying to argue that all of this isn't shitty at the same time, tacitly adding to the racism. It's just incredibly unempathetic and doesn't really serve a purpose.

And yet, we have people now commenting in detail on the linguistic interpretation of the post to try and eke out some case for the response. What is this even for?

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#363

Post by throwaway201103 »

tptacek wrote: post #319
Taek wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment is too snarky for my taste but the main thrust of the message is spot on. When I've taken the time to ask black friends and black professionals in my industry about their experience, it's very clear that they deal with an extra level of complications and hardships compared to me. And it's not "my one black friend was a victim of racism this one time." It's just generally harder to get a job. It's just ge…

Same! For instance, it never occurred to me that Black men have to be especially careful about expressing frustration, because white coworkers find any expression of anger from a Black man threatening. But that's what my neighbor, who also works in tech, told me: that he's basically never allowed to object as forcefully as white coworkers, because otherwise he'll get HR complaints. There's probably a whole lot of shi…

And why does this stereotype of aggressive black men persist? Who promotes it?

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#365

Post by tptacek »

aparsons wrote: post #352
generalizations wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like what you're saying is entirely possible. However, where I disagree is that you seem to expect us to simply "face the truth" that the discrimination exists; you're deploring the existence of alternate possibilities! > Some even venture into the possibility that a black person complaining about being passed over for promotion might just not be good enough for the job and then just blame discrimination rat…

This is the problem posed by “SJW” entities in a nutshell. Of course racism exists, and AAs have been one of the big targets for decades. But even considering another alternative explanation to something related to discrimination gets you on the list of racists/deserving-of-cancellation/etc. There is always room for debate, especially in a case like this where information is sparse. Forcibly shutting down anyone who…

Could you show me this list of racists you're referring to, with regards to this HN thread and the dangers of disputing the racism of Coinbase's management?

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#366

Post by tptacek »

throwaway201103 wrote: post #363
tptacek wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same! For instance, it never occurred to me that Black men have to be especially careful about expressing frustration, because white coworkers find any expression of anger from a Black man threatening. But that's what my neighbor, who also works in tech, told me: that he's basically never allowed to object as forcefully as white coworkers, because otherwise he'll get HR complaints. There's probably a whole lot of shi…

And why does this stereotype of aggressive black men persist? Who promotes it?

White people who are afraid of Black people, I'd imagine.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#367

Post by camdenlock »

vmception wrote: post #63

I was willing to support the general message Brian Armstrong put out, but with the added context and chronology I cannot. I would say that this kind of mission statement can only work if done at the beginning, as reacting in response to the work environment described by their employees was doomed for failure. I know many people like Brian Armstrong, and the investors. They are all cut from a similar cloth and they ho…

> They don’t know how to get women on a panel

> they don’t know how to get qualified people of color in positions to change things

These aren’t the kinds of things that someone running a business should be concerned with.

Don’t be condescending. Women and “people of color” don’t need to be rescued and hoisted up into a business artificially. They are perfectly capable of joining the workforce through the same doors as all other people.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#368

Post by slimed »

tptacek wrote: post #319
Taek wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment is too snarky for my taste but the main thrust of the message is spot on. When I've taken the time to ask black friends and black professionals in my industry about their experience, it's very clear that they deal with an extra level of complications and hardships compared to me. And it's not "my one black friend was a victim of racism this one time." It's just generally harder to get a job. It's just ge…

Same! For instance, it never occurred to me that Black men have to be especially careful about expressing frustration, because white coworkers find any expression of anger from a Black man threatening. But that's what my neighbor, who also works in tech, told me: that he's basically never allowed to object as forcefully as white coworkers, because otherwise he'll get HR complaints. There's probably a whole lot of shi…

There's also a lot of (bull) shit you will end up carrying water for with this attitude. People cannot be given a blank check for societal greivance based on ethnicity.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#369

Post by chance_state »

snicksnak wrote: post #17

This piece paints coinbase as a company with racist tendencies and a hostile place to work for black people. Based on the evidence or lack there of provided the article and after reading coinbase's rebuttal, I must say this NYT piece feels like an attempt to bully coinbase/armstrong into reverting its/his stance on engagement in issues unrelated to coinbase core mission and into submission to the cause.

Would the NYT just go off and... write an ideological hit piece?

Impossible!

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#370

Post by adjkant »

aparsons wrote: post #356
adjkant wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very well said. People seem to be trying to apply a criminal prosecution level standard for proof/evidence, one that is almost never applied to other companies on non hot button issues or generally on HN. You highlighted the specific hoops people are jumping through well. I hope maybe people can examine why they are so motivated to use this hypocritical double standard to defend this company they have no direct ties…

Can it not he argued that the recent phenomenon of cancelling / treating those accused of these acts as criminals and trying to ruin their livelihoods, means applying a criminal level of evidence is warranted?

No.

We have played this argument out and I'd love to get over beating this dead horse, here and all over the tech industry. Go look elsewhere in the comments. Fantastical conspiracy webs ("trying to ruin their livelihoods") require according evidence, not refutation. We have a slew of people on the record, and direct response from Coinbase. Not to mention that no one is getting "cancelled" here.

The bigger conversation to be had is that cancel culture doesn't exist as you describe even.

I'm simply tired of this.

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