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Pfizer submits Covid vaccine to FDA for approval, to distribute in December

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Re: Pfizer submits Covid vaccine to FDA for approval, to distribute in December

#361

Post by anoncake »

chaostheory wrote: post #347
anoncake wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it stays strong and shows no sign of weakening.

According to several studies, that's not true. "Two new studies demonstrate how severity of disease is predictive of longer-lasting antibody production and detail how immunity wanes over time but may exist for up to 7 months." https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/10/studies-... https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/duration-isola... There's also evidence of re-infection https://www.thelancet.com/j…

You (or rather the writer of that news piece) apparently confused antibodies and immunity. Not only are antibodies not the only mechanism of the adaptive immune system, T cells are harder to test for but equally important. Also it's normal that the body doesn't keep them around indefinitely after an exception. It creates memory cells and quickly recreates antibodies and T cells when needed.

There is evidence that reinfection does occasionally happen, but none that it happens frequently enough to worry about. The paper you've linked mentions four cases.

Re: Pfizer submits Covid vaccine to FDA for approval, to distribute in December

#362

Post by anthony_doan »

chaostheory wrote: post #325
BiteCode_dev wrote: post #312

Do we know how long does the vaccine holds? Is that like polio and lasts for years, or like the flu and you need a new dose each year?

Unless I missed it, there hasn't been any data released. I'm only seeing PR accouncements.

> Unless I missed it, there hasn't been any data released. I'm only seeing PR accouncements.

Because there is no long term data on covid19 mutation speed.

You need a cohort to take the vaccine and then some time before doing a retroactive study.

Re: Pfizer submits Covid vaccine to FDA for approval, to distribute in December

#363

Post by hobofan »

chaostheory wrote: post #347
anoncake wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it stays strong and shows no sign of weakening.

According to several studies, that's not true. "Two new studies demonstrate how severity of disease is predictive of longer-lasting antibody production and detail how immunity wanes over time but may exist for up to 7 months." https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/10/studies-... https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/duration-isola... There's also evidence of re-infection https://www.thelancet.com/j…

Your first link only focuses on (the easier to test) antibodies, and doesn't mention T cell memory, which is the much more important factor in long-term immunity.

And of course there are going to be individual cases of reinfections with 55+ million cases.

Re: Pfizer submits Covid vaccine to FDA for approval, to distribute in December

#364

Post by chaostheory »

anoncake wrote: post #361
chaostheory wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to several studies, that's not true. "Two new studies demonstrate how severity of disease is predictive of longer-lasting antibody production and detail how immunity wanes over time but may exist for up to 7 months." https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/10/studies-... https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/duration-isola... There's also evidence of re-infection https://www.thelancet.com/j…

You (or rather the writer of that news piece) apparently confused antibodies and immunity. Not only are antibodies not the only mechanism of the adaptive immune system, T cells are harder to test for but equally important. Also it's normal that the body doesn't keep them around indefinitely after an exception. It creates memory cells and quickly recreates antibodies and T cells when needed. There is evidence that rei…

You're right, but are there any peer reviewed papers that back up your argument?

> The paper you've linked mentions four cases.

Those are confirmed cases. That doesn't mean there's only 4 total.

Re: Pfizer submits Covid vaccine to FDA for approval, to distribute in December

#365

Post by fooflarney »

lmilcin wrote: post #88
iakh wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Hey. I am not anti vaccine. Your comment is uninformed in that you did not read my comment with comprehension and that you don't understand what stupid stuff anti-vaxxers are serving. My kids are all vaccinated and so am I and I don't suggest to people to not vaccinate. I am just trying to cool down the too happy thinking that the vaccine is some magical tool that automatically causes problems to go away with no risk…

This is how I feel too. I have a science degree and firmly understand the logic of vaccines and I and my family are all vaccinated. However, I do NOT get flu shots, and I usually fare better yearly than those who do. Why? Because I keep my immune system functioning as optimally as possible, vegan diet, exercise, healthy living. People these days are so pro-vaxx that they think they can live completely unhealthy lifestyles, and eat whatever crappy food and processed meat are available, and then the magical biopharmaceutical alchemists will release yearly drugs to defend against the viral outbreaks. Doing so you give them power, and those people are the same people who developed napalm, agent orange, mustard gas, and every other predatory chemical that exists. So yes the black magic pharam folks can produce good miracles to save you, but they also could be the ones actually DEVELOPING bio warfare agents like the covid-19 virus, and then it's a vicious circle. All they need is for otherwise smart people to give up questioning the chemical components of the vaccines themselves, and they can develop wearables and social barriers that allow totalitarian rule. It's not binary, you can question the vaccine at any level, that's what science is about, it's not about anti-anit-vaxxing propaganda and insane dependency on predatory institutions that pretend to care about your well being.

Re: Pfizer submits Covid vaccine to FDA for approval, to distribute in December

#366

Post by saguntum »

brewdad wrote: post #359
aphextron wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems like an mRNA vaccine is more akin to food you consume that produces a desired effect, rather than something permanently sticking around in your body. It doesn't permanently modify your genetics. This is a really good analogy. It's important to note that this stuff literally has to be stored at cryogenic temperatures just so it won't completely degrade before being injected. Once inside your body, it's comp…

Is there a way to package the vaccine that would "prove" proper handling all through the chain of custody? Sort of the biological equivalent of the shock tags moving companies put on boxes containing fragile items. Given how sensitive to temperature this vaccine is, I would like some reassurance that no one mishandled it along the way.

It's not proof to you, but Pfizer is shipping the vaccine in boxes that monitor temperature and location and transmit it to them so they can watch it. I trust that they wouldn't allow risky doses to be used. The risk to them of something bad happening and the public losing trust in the vaccine is too great.

Re: Pfizer submits Covid vaccine to FDA for approval, to distribute in December

#367

Post by faeyanpiraat »

Exmoor wrote: post #315
gvv wrote: post #29

Well just like I don't immediately update to the latest OS I think I'll wait for the beta testing to happen :)

To continue this analogy, this is more along the lines of a patch to fix a remote code execution bug that is being actively exploited in the wild at an increasing rate. Your alternative is to only connect to the network very infrequently, using a draconian firewall which doesn't completely protect you and hope for the best. The security patch has been tested on tens of thousands instances for several months, the sour…

The difference is that it is not yet fully understood how humans work.

If you patch a machine and leave it alone, it will stay like that.

Humans age, already have or will get other kinds of diseases, have wildly varied genes, etc..

Drugs could have side effects not manifesting immediately, v2 of the same drug might have less of those side effects.

Re: Pfizer submits Covid vaccine to FDA for approval, to distribute in December

#368

Post by Exmoor »

chaostheory wrote: post #328
m1117 wrote: post #157

I'd go and get it ASAP, so I resume my life. Anti-vaxxers can isolate themselves forever :)

Life can resume right now. Everyone just needs to wear a mask. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-face-mask-protection-vacc... https://www.health.com/condition/infectious-diseases/coronav...

>"I might even go so far as to say that this face mask is more guaranteed to protect me against COVID than when I take a COVID vaccine, because it may be 70%. And if I don't get an immune response, the vaccine is not going to protect me,"

This is from September before the results of the vaccines were known. The two vaccines we have data on have a ~95% protection rate from getting symptomatic COVID. Additionally, of that 5% of vaccinated folks who did get symptomatic COVID, there cases appear to be much less severe than the control group.

Re: Pfizer submits Covid vaccine to FDA for approval, to distribute in December

#369

Post by chaostheory »

Exmoor wrote: post #368
chaostheory wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Life can resume right now. Everyone just needs to wear a mask. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-face-mask-protection-vacc... https://www.health.com/condition/infectious-diseases/coronav...

>"I might even go so far as to say that this face mask is more guaranteed to protect me against COVID than when I take a COVID vaccine, because it may be 70%. And if I don't get an immune response, the vaccine is not going to protect me," This is from September before the results of the vaccines were known. The two vaccines we have data on have a ~95% protection rate from getting symptomatic COVID. Additionally, of t…

That's based on PR statements alone. Unless I missed it, they still haven't released any data.

Re: Pfizer submits Covid vaccine to FDA for approval, to distribute in December

#370

Post by smrk007 »

Irene wrote: post #13

Pfizer selected New Mexico, Rhode Island, Tennessee and Texas for their pilot delivery program "due to the states' immunization infrastructures, urban and rural variations, size and population diversity". First batches of vaccine will probably go to frontline medical workers first, followed by frail old people. a paper in Medrxiv favored "older first" model based on evolutionary game theory and mobility data, for lar…

Can I get a link to the Medarxiv paper? Would be an interesting read.
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