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Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

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Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#361

Post by _abox »

3pt14159 wrote: post #6

This is one of those tough cases where software cuts both ways. Some people are smart, informed developers that install a trusted tool to monitor their traffic and have legitimate reasons to want to inspect Apple traffic. They're dismayed. Most people are the opposite and this move protects the most sensitive data from being easily scooped up or muddled in easily installed apps, or at least easily installed apps that…

Who cares about the world.. I just want full access to the system I paid for. This should always remain an option.

Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#362

Post by [deleted] »

Spivak wrote: post #267
eptcyka wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish Apple agreed. But on the other hand, there are use cases where checking for the existence of a default route is the best heuristic.

I mean that's what a default route is supposed to mean, right? That this machine can route to any address. It might not get there because of a firewall, or because nothing is at a given address but you're at least claiming to know what to do with a packet destined for anywhere.

[deleted]

Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#363

Post by GekkePrutser »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #318
Spivak wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean the irony is when it comes to browsers you see the general tone of HN shift to the opposite opinion when it comes to features like, RTC, USB, Bluetooth, Filesystem Access. These are all features that give users more power but it's (apparently) easier to see the downsides and how these features can and are used maliciously. Now put yourself in the Apple's position where "an iOS app" or a "mac App" is about as t…

> I mean the irony is when it comes to browsers you see the general tone of HN shift to the opposite opinion when it comes to features like, RTC, USB, Bluetooth, Filesystem Access. I don't think it's that ironic. From my vantage point, the big tech companies specifically and consistently invoke the security arguments that are best aligned with their agendas. • We need to enforce automatic Windows 10 updates to keep y…

Also, they lock the user in to the corporation's choices. Most of these don't even have a way to bypass them for knowledgeable users.

Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#364

Post by millstone »

pmarreck wrote: post #144
AlexandrB wrote: post #53

Both major consumer OS vendors seem hell-bent on bringing the OS layer under their complete control. As a power user, it's very frustrating. Meanwhile "desktop" Linux still kind of sucks, just like it did 10 years ago. I don't have much hope of seeing a compelling, unified UX out of Linux in my lifetime.

I'm kind of glad Linux doesn't have a "unified UX". I mean, the MacOS of 15+ years ago iron-fisted it, and it was right most of the time, but glaringly not in a few cases (simple examples, the ability to reshape a window by any corner or edge was conspicuously absent on Mac for a long time, as was the right mouse button). Best to let a bunch of free ideas duke it out. Currently using Ubuntu 20.10 beta (releases in 2…

Consistent UI compounds. If every app picked its own keyboard shortcuts and "duked it out", we would lose the thing that makes keyboard shortcuts useful.

Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#365

Post by sdoering »

fennecfoxen wrote: post #335
rootsudo wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

REALLY? Okay, I'm going to test this. I noticed odd hangings and cpu hitting high temps on a MBP 2018' w/ dell usb C dock on left side, meanwhile right side is fine but I had to reboot randomly and sometimes it will just crash. And this is a MBP on a laptop stand.

Docks on the left side, or similar devices which provide both power and send data, seem to be particularly problematic. On advice of my employer's IT department I went from "spinning up new VMs in VirtualBox reliably leads to thermal excess, CPU throttling, and total system shutdown" to a system that actually works -- just by moving the dock connection to the right side. It's a little funny because the advice used to…

What? I have to test this. I have my 4k monitor also providing power. Being a lefty I always plug it into the left side. Need to test this. Thanks for the information.

Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#366

Post by GekkePrutser »

brightball wrote: post #101

Unreal. Does it feel to anybody else that a lot of grip tightening seems to be happening right now?

Yes it does. All in line with "Computing as a service" rather than "Computing as a product". We're now a guest inside our computers rather than the owner.

Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#367

Post by freedomben »

ryukafalz wrote: post #336
oatmealsnap wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same experience. I tried, but Linux just isn’t ready to be used as a general OS right now. I’ve dug through message boards and bug reports, and a lot of the features that MacOS has will never be implemented. I’m taking about features released 13+ years ago on OS X 10.4.

> Same experience. I tried, but Linux just isn’t ready to be used as a general OS right now. Highly, highly subjective. I use Linux as my main OS and have for many years.

Agreed. I've used Linux full time on the desktop, laptop, and on the server for over 10 years now and I have a better experience there than mac (which I had to use on my work machine for 6 months due to employer only allowing macs).

Of course everything is not perfect, but that wasn't true in mac either. I had to hack and shim so many things to get my system to behave the way I wanted to. There were also horrible bugs like where plugging in an external (Apple branded) monitor would cause the laptop screen to go black forever until I held down the power button.

Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#368

Post by userbinator »

radlad wrote: post #286
mulmen wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? When I’m out socializing there’s no spying to do. But as soon as I get back I will just log in and the spying begins. I’m so accustomed to flaky peripherals with Apple products I wouldn’t even be alarmed at the behavior.

I think you misunderstand. The idea is that if your keyboard is replaced with a keyboard that has modified (hacked) firmware, your computer will refuse to let you use it. To do this, it must obtain a cryptographic attestation from the keyboard firmware, proving that it has not been modified. Further, to avoid replay attacks it must include the current time in the message it signs. NTP is used by macOS to determine th…

If I was an attacker I would simply hook into the key matrix. The extra obfuscation in firmware is just user-hostile and stupid.

Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#369

Post by dylan604 »

fennecfoxen wrote: post #335
rootsudo wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

REALLY? Okay, I'm going to test this. I noticed odd hangings and cpu hitting high temps on a MBP 2018' w/ dell usb C dock on left side, meanwhile right side is fine but I had to reboot randomly and sometimes it will just crash. And this is a MBP on a laptop stand.

Docks on the left side, or similar devices which provide both power and send data, seem to be particularly problematic. On advice of my employer's IT department I went from "spinning up new VMs in VirtualBox reliably leads to thermal excess, CPU throttling, and total system shutdown" to a system that actually works -- just by moving the dock connection to the right side. It's a little funny because the advice used to…

On one of the older MacBookPros, the left hand USB port was USB3 while the one on the right hand side was USB2

Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#370

Post by userbinator »

TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #307
gumby wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but is it really that hard to document these behaviors? I imagine it is, given the bureaucracy of a big company. Apple's documentation has long been really dreadful, mostly nonexistent and where it does exist, usually incomplete and even wrong. I've assumed it was because the code itself is developed by isolated groups while the documentation presumably has to touch all sorts of people (publishing, translation, lan…

> Apple's documentation has long been really dreadful, mostly nonexistent and where it does exist, usually incomplete and even wrong. Anyone want to tell him about Microsoft's Azure or .NET documentation?... It's the same all over.

MS docs were great, but after they took down MSDN and let the "community" maintain them on Github, it's been going downhill.
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