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YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

reuters.com

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Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#361

Post by TomSwirly »

kortilla wrote: post #304
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Happy to engage you in another forum, which would probably be more productive. Ping me if you'd like to video chat. But it's a good question and I'll try to reply in a brief and somewhat hand-wavy way (due to the medium, space, etc) Everything I'm going to say has caveats. And I can't cover them all. Meh. If you believe that the species as a whole has never been this unstable before, then the real question is this: w…

Your thesis is based on the notion that “society is unstable” more than ever before. How are you measuring that? Despite tons of noise in social media, real life up has been incredibly stable for the last couple of decades in the west. The least amount of violence, lowest extreme poverty, highest disposable income, etc etc. In the 70s (before social media), there were multiple bombings every year in the US. That is c…

The fact that rich and important people have very good security - why is this at all relevant?

Before the USSR collapsed, when was the last time a prominent Soviet politician was assassinated, a Soviet government building bombed, a prominent Soviet politician assaulted and left in the hospital?

At least 200,000 Americans and probably a lot more have died in the last eight months, most of them completely unnecessarily. Waving this away as "economic instability" shows a lack of perspective.

And over all hangs the grim spectre of the climate emergency, which we as a species are doing nothing to fix.

Sorry, but as a civilization we are fucked.

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#362

Post by notahacker »

jonathanstrange wrote: post #252
owlbynight wrote: post #174

I'll preface this by stating that I hate the idea of censorship and I always have. However, were I to happen across someone motionless on the floor with a needle in their arm, I would give them NARCAN instead of a ride to a rehab center. I'm from the United States. Social media is currently poisoning our country to a degree that I think it may be too late to try and draw out the fight for free speech by using free sp…

I understand the position but let me argue for the other side a little bit. The problem with companies like Youtube, Google, Amazon, and Facebook is that they do everything algorithmically, since anything else wouldn't scale. Meanwhile, they have no incentives to care about false positives and the power relation between them and their customers is extremely asymmetric - basically, it's a system of oppression. To the…

I don't really see why YouTube choosing not to display stuff its algorithms (rightly or wrongly) identify as bullshit about vaccines containing microchips is more objectionable than YouTube choosing not to display stuff its algorithms (rightly or wrongly) identify as sexual content though, as it has done since the very beginning.

Yes, algorithmic flagging gets things wrong, but there's nothing new in this announcement unless one believes that antivax sentiment, unlike nudity, is something YouTube ought to be obliged to broadcast

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#363

Post by refurb »

garbagetime wrote: post #255
refurb wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it does in some cases. Take Alzheimer's disease for example. What is the mechanism for the disease? We don't know. But the consensus is it's not amyloid plaques, based on the most recent data. Some scientists think it still is, but the consensus is it's not. Scientific truth is not black and white but rather shades of gray. Yes, some things we know the absolute truth (or rather there is so much evidence that it's…

>Yes it does in some cases. Take Alzheimer's disease for example. What is the mechanism for the disease? We don't know. But the consensus is it's not amyloid plaques, based on the most recent data. Some scientists think it still is, but the consensus is it's not. The scientific justification we have (in the situation you describe) for our belief comes from the data, not the the consensus. >Scientific truth is not bla…

The scientific justification we have (in the situation you describe) for our belief comes from the data, not the the consensus.

But the data is not always unambiguous. There can be, and often is, two competing theories. It is often consensus as to which one is accepted as mainstream.

I got back to my Alzheimer’s example. It’s the general consensus that the amyloid hypothesis is wrong. However, there are those that hold onto it and it’s not because they don’t grasp the data. There are still enough unknowns to firmly put it to rest.

The bacterial hypothesis is another good example. The data supported that stress and diet was the cause of stomach ulcers. That was the “scientific truth”. It was wrong.

Consensus is nothing more than “what is the best interpretation of the data based on our current understanding”. Current understanding being defined by “what do most scientists think?”.

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#364

Post by 3np »

owlbynight wrote: post #273
3np wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. YouTube should be free to allow or block any content they want on their privately owned and permissions platform. At the same time, no company should have the power to decide what content can be shared and spread. It’s all of our responsibilities to take back the power we always had and give it back to individuals. The other their is through open protocols through decentralized / federated permissionless infras…

But how do you take the power back? How do you yell shark and get people to listen when they've been desensitized by an ocean full of fake sharks?

Start with yourself. Prefer better alternatives whenever possible.

If you have the means: Start hosting. Contribute (code, tutorials, docs). Spread the word. Contribute funds to projects. Answer support questions/GH issues/forum posts from people who are having issues.

When it comes to people you know and interact with, start with the “low-hanging fruit” (individuals who have skills/interest in technology or are already agreeing about the problem).

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#365

Post by blub »

j8hn wrote: post #160
0xy wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dr Fauci publicly claimed masks were not effective as a means of protecting the supply of masks to healthcare workers, he knew his claims were false at the time he made them. So no, it wasn't "science", it was deliberately misleading public statements.

I believe there wasn't much scientific evidence that non n95 mask helped. Especially because of the fit test. It was even unknown for n95. I remember early on debating people whether masks worked and they pointed to the lack of scientific studies.

When one compares the advice and recommendations related to SARS with those for SARS-CoV-2 it becomes obvious that the latter could only be explained by dishonesty or stupidity.

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#366

Post by raxxorrax »

owlbynight wrote: post #303
keiferski wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it will occur naturally over the next few decades. Each misstep that Big Tech / Big Media makes chips off a tiny sliver of their edifice. Over time this will splinter into a thousand pieces, and some attempt to unify information across them will be invented and adopted. It’s easy to forget that the modern Internet itself is only about thirty years old. We’re still at the very, very early stages.

I was on the early Internet. I miss it greatly, but also, it was the wild west, which was awesome when I was essentially living in the woods secluded from the outside world. The freedom was intoxicating. It ended up shaping my entire life. I've watched the Internet grow and evolve into what it is and spent the majority of my free time participating in it from 1993 until today and probably until I die. The thing is, t…

You might have grown older and more frightful. I think kids today are fine navigating misinformation that another even older generation thinks will destroy societies.

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#367

Post by cheph »

hef19898 wrote: post #357
cheph wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think the idea is to censor untrue and dangerous ideas rather than unpopular ideas. I would definitely agree that if all viewpoints except mine were eliminated the world would be a better place.

I'd say this way of thinking is un-democratic, and deeply dangerous.

Maybe it would help if I thought all viewpoint except mine were untrue and dangerous.

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#368

Post by bergstromm466 »

concordDance wrote: post #301
owlbynight wrote: post #174

I'll preface this by stating that I hate the idea of censorship and I always have. However, were I to happen across someone motionless on the floor with a needle in their arm, I would give them NARCAN instead of a ride to a rehab center. I'm from the United States. Social media is currently poisoning our country to a degree that I think it may be too late to try and draw out the fight for free speech by using free sp…

> Social media is currently poisoning our country to a degree that I think it may be too late to try and draw out the fight for free speech by using free speech alone. Why do people think this? A few selected anecdotes and some tiny numbers (1000 people liking a post talking about covid causing 5G? Tiny numbers)? What is the end-game that is so feared? If the people as a whole can't be trusted to make sensible decisi…

> If the people as a whole can't be trusted to make sensible decisions and judgements then abolish democracy and copy the Chinese system.

Wow, I've never seen an argument for fascism so casually mentioned. I'm talking about 'abolish democracy'.

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#369

Post by dinkleberg »

TomSwirly wrote: post #352
pjc50 wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we've solved over and over again the problem of what it takes to have a peaceful and progressive society ... have we? Much of the 20th century was spent at war, with a death total somewhere in the region of a hundred million. As were most of the previous centuries. There have been isolated pockets where one might have a lifetime of stability over a wide area, but few of those were also "free". > The problem we have…

Are you honestly claiming that banning paid lies on YouTube leads to Rohingya-style genocide? It's increasingly difficult to have rational conversations with Americans these days, and this idea is certainly a big part of it. It just astonishes me that Americans see little difference between a private company forbidding liars from using their free service, and people being rounded up at gunpoint and being killed.

That is a sweeping generalization if I’ve ever heard one. Do you really think most Americans are like that?

I think you’re inflating the views of the few outspoken fools too be that of the majority.

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#370

Post by hef19898 »

cheph wrote: post #367
hef19898 wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say this way of thinking is un-democratic, and deeply dangerous.

Maybe it would help if I thought all viewpoint except mine were untrue and dangerous.

Quite the contrary. Because that would make the underlying idea, but not the specific legalities, of free speech completely useless for you.
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