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China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

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Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#361

Post by drieddust »

derwiki wrote: post #190
drieddust wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As evident from my other comments I don't like CCP one bit. But while we criticize oppression, Muslim extremism which triggered this oopression shouldn't be pushed aside either. Tibet is equally oppressed under CCP's boots for many decades now but nobody seems to be bothered. I don't like this selective outrage of west.

My most cynical viewpoint is that it’s virtue signaling by Americans. We’re ashamed of our atrocities and it’s easy to point to this atrocity. Maybe it’s inadvertently selective?

I don't think that is the case. Media is biased but I am not sure why Media wants to exaggarate atrocities on Muslims but convinently skips atrocities on other ethnic group mostly by the Muslim extremists.

I understand all Muslims are not involved but what stops Media from highlighting the atrocities of Muslim extemist group. Plenty of these groups exists but barely reported.

I am not sure if this is because of White guilt or Media houses are scared of Charlie Hebdo like scenario.

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#362

Post by TT3351 »

magicsmoke wrote: post #342
pradn wrote: post #328

It's important to realize that Xinjiang is a colony of China. China took over Xinjiang in the past few hundred years; historically, kingdoms there were independent. Sometimes they had tributary relationships, other times they were allies of the Chinese kingdoms. Colonialism takes many forms and Europeans don't have a monopoly on it. The Uyghurs have rebelled many times and even formed short-lived states, the last bef…

In "the past few hundred years" the US took over the American continent and cleaned up exceptionally well. In a world of global competition singling out Xinjiang as a colony while ignoring how China's biggest military threat is literally built on top of colonial conquests isn't a fair comparison. Where is the line that makes Xinjiang a "colony" while New York isn't? Is the US going to magically move its navy back to…

I think it's more than a little disingenuous to insinuate New York is a colony without representation in government.

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#363

Post by ufmace »

mrfusion wrote: post #154

What’s the background here? Why does China need to do this?

Short version as I understand it - there was a little bit of Islamic terrorism a decade or so ago. China decided to address it by basically wiping the entire religion and culture out of existence. Thus why they call them "deradicalization" and "re-education" camps. Their PR story is that they're trying to take "suspected Islamic radicals" and reeducate them to "integrate into mainstream Chinese society".

In practice, this seems to mean that if you're the wrong religion and so much as breathe funny, off you go to the camps, where you will be basically tortured and brainwashed into adopting Han Chinese culture.

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#364

Post by eric_b »

TheUndead96 wrote: post #2

To those that believe that they would not have turned a blind eye during WWII to the systematic extermination of Jews, the current generation has been given a similar challenge. Where is your cancel-culture now? How will our children think of us?

Why is this flagged? This is a powerful opinion and deserves to be seen.

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#365

Post by ufmace »

magicsmoke wrote: post #342
pradn wrote: post #328

It's important to realize that Xinjiang is a colony of China. China took over Xinjiang in the past few hundred years; historically, kingdoms there were independent. Sometimes they had tributary relationships, other times they were allies of the Chinese kingdoms. Colonialism takes many forms and Europeans don't have a monopoly on it. The Uyghurs have rebelled many times and even formed short-lived states, the last bef…

In "the past few hundred years" the US took over the American continent and cleaned up exceptionally well. In a world of global competition singling out Xinjiang as a colony while ignoring how China's biggest military threat is literally built on top of colonial conquests isn't a fair comparison. Where is the line that makes Xinjiang a "colony" while New York isn't? Is the US going to magically move its navy back to…

No country's history is entirely pretty. This is about addressing what's happening right now. China is actively working to crush Uyghur culture under their boots right now. This very story is about how they're actively building more "reeducation" camps. American isn't doing anything remotely as bad right now.

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#366

Post by dutch3000 »

emptyfile wrote: post #81
dutch3000 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a million? really?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War Americans might have conveniently forgot what was happening in the world between the years 2001-2011, but the world hasn't.

i’m not questioning the existence of the conflict, yet your propagation of exaggerated figures.

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#367

Post by jkhdigital »

euix wrote: post #160

When I was traveling around Xinjiang about two years back it was obvious something was going on. In Korla everyone getting off the train had to submit to a retinal scan, presumably so authorities know all the ingress and egress into town, going to a park involved going through a checkpoint. To get into any train station at all involved 3 levels of checkpoints, the first checkpoint started before you got to the plaza…

Amen to that last statement.

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#368

Post by thu2111 »

joelbluminator wrote: post #80
brobdingnagians wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I know most Germans weren't aware of what was happening in the camps until after the war. They would have known there were people being taken away. Most genocidal governments don't publicize it as that. There is almost always a cover story. When there is a systematic removal of people from there homes, we mus assume the worst. Because a government with such widespread and systematic oppression, unrestrained…

I doubt it. Even in the 40s, with no internet or cell phone cameras, even back then most governments knew about the holocaust as early as 41-42. There were evidence from concentration camp prisoners who escaped, and probably other kinds of evidence...I mean it's kinda hard to hide exterminating millions of people even if you're super efficient and organised. The stories we hear from China are despicable, but again -…

Can you cite that? My understanding is that the concentration camps weren't known to exist until the Allies stumbled onto them whilst advancing across Europe. In many camps the Germans had attempted to destroy them just hours before allied troops arrived, in an attempt to conceal what had been happening, but were interrupted by the high speed of the advance after D-Day. If everyone knew they wouldn't have put these camps far into the wilderness and forests, they wouldn't have tried to destroy them as they fled, and the allies wouldn't have been surprised by what they found.

As for Germans knowing, they were subject to Nazi censorship. Some of them had their suspicions for sure. I saw a quote once from a woman who said of course they knew about the camps. When asked how she knew, her reply was: because that's exactly the sort of thing Hitler would have done. So she didn't really know, just suspected based on past behaviour, which is different.

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#370

Post by mistermann »

ericmay wrote: post #348
mistermann wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Call your representatives. They will respond to thousands of phone calls from constituents saying "do X". What do you say to people who don't really believe this? I don't think I'm the only one who looks at the political scene (and much of "reality" as it is projected into our brains through the media) and thinks it's largely theatre. Kayfabe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kayfabe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lf…

> What do you say to people who don't really believe this? Nothing really. They've lost faith in democracy and have given up on the country. What else is there to talk about? If you have no faith in the system and don't want to participate then I'm not sure what you want or you're expecting.

> They've lost faith in democracy

"Democracy" is a principle - our current implementation of it is but one of many possibilities to go about it.

Democracy (in general, and our rather arbitrary flavor of it) is only one form of governance, is there some reason we're bound to this approach? Nothing else shall be considered?

> and have given up on the country

This is speculation - it is not possible to know the thoughts, dreams, intentions of other people with accuracy.

> If you have no faith in the system and don't want to participate then I'm not sure what you want or you're expecting.

I believe I want something similar to what the BLM protesters believe they want, who are also displeased with the outputs of "the system" as it is. I'm weary of the "my way or the highway, reality is what we say it is" approach to "Democratic" governance theatre.

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