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LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

psymposia.com

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Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#361

Post by perl4ever »

BurningFrog wrote: post #311
perl4ever wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you can get into trouble if you start playing around with radioactive material, too. I think "The Radioactive Boy Scout" has been mentioned on HN a few times. I think a reason why dangerous things are regulated is because even though they don't always lead to harm, the harm can be grave and impossible to undo. Even if an unexpected trip doesn't technically lead to permanent brain damage, if the behavior were mi…

There is no LSD radiation though. It can't beam itself into your mouth. Bystanders are never inadvertently drugged.

>Bystanders are never inadvertently drugged

I don't have a counterexample, as the allegations I was reading on Wikipedia are generally of intentionally drugging people,[1][2] but I wouldn't be particularly confident in your statement; how would one know it hasn't happened?

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1951_Pont-Saint-Esprit_mass_po... [2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra#LSD

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#362

Post by perl4ever »

craftinator wrote: post #279
perl4ever wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you can get into trouble if you start playing around with radioactive material, too. I think "The Radioactive Boy Scout" has been mentioned on HN a few times. I think a reason why dangerous things are regulated is because even though they don't always lead to harm, the harm can be grave and impossible to undo. Even if an unexpected trip doesn't technically lead to permanent brain damage, if the behavior were mi…

Apparently it's dead comment time, yay! But yes, some things are dangerous. LSD is less dangerous than many many legal things, such as guns, alcohol, driving, etc, so why is it illegal?

I read Stephen King's Firestarter at an early age, so that, and other things influenced by MKULTRA, factors in to why I think LSD is scary.

The other issue I have is that when people say that LSD can harm people with a predisposition to schizophrenia or whatever, it's frightening because it seems like a stereotyped thinking pattern that's useful for denying unacceptable causal hypotheses that might in fact be real.

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#363

Post by rdmirza »

newbie789 wrote: post #341

This is delightful news. I really hope in the coming decades the research of organizations like MAPS get more attention and become completely mainstream. Making psychedelics Schedule 1 set us back decades that could have been spent doing important research on a large number of mental health conditions.

MAPS (multidisciplinary association of psychedelic studies) is systematically demonstrating the positive effects of psychedelics.

Their most impressive work is in PTSD. In Phase 2 trials, they took people with established PTSD (for years) and undertook ~3 guided psychotherapy sessions with MDMA. Within 2 months, 53% no longer met criteria for PTSD and at 12 months 68% didn't.

Far more efficacious that anything else we have. Powerful tool for psychologic healing.

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#364

Post by perl4ever »

MiroF wrote: post #249
perl4ever wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you can get into trouble if you start playing around with radioactive material, too. I think "The Radioactive Boy Scout" has been mentioned on HN a few times. I think a reason why dangerous things are regulated is because even though they don't always lead to harm, the harm can be grave and impossible to undo. Even if an unexpected trip doesn't technically lead to permanent brain damage, if the behavior were mi…

Better to combat by certainly permanently wrecking someone's life with 20 years in prison.

I think there's no reason there should be a single person on both sides of the equation, never mind arbitrary choices of the harm scenario. In a contrived utilitarian scenario, you could save 1,000 people and send one to prison, or vice versa.

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#365

Post by GoodRxEngineer »

gallexme wrote: post #122
Nursie wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having tried AL and the original, I'm not sure I could spot any sort of difference. It was years apart and it's all very subjective though.

I tried ETH AL and 1p half a month apart , they all been a lot of different AL lad 150ug was happy ish almost no visuals, very slight mind changes ETH lad 75ug played most with my mind visuals were weak but very distinct to lsd, touch was amazing,but was extremely easy to get afraid of smth(thought loops etc) 1p lsd 125ug was just like lsd with maybe more vasoconstriction atleast hands felt colder n hikes were more e…

That's wild that AL didn't give you visuals, it was the one that gave me the most visuals by far

Guess it affects people differently

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#367

Post by filoeleven »

gverrilla wrote: post #203
nyolfen wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LSD use is actually higher than it has ever been in the US. i apologize for lacking a source, but this was something i saw about a week ago, in the context of highlighting its relative popularity with young, college-educated americans. that said, it’s hardly a cash cow in the way meth and fentanyl are; and as someone said elsewhere on this thread, one person could probably suppy the whole country.

I'm 99,9% positive demand for LSD is not higher than it has ever been in the US because of the hippie era, when it was huge. The problem with LSD as a product is not only that few people use it. Amongst those that use it, most won't use many times. Compared to my social circle I'm a pretty heavy user, had around 30 trips in the span of almost 15 years. Most people I have met didn't trip more than 3 or 4 times in thei…

You’re probably right about the demand. Our population is higher now, and there’s the microdosing trend to account for, but it’s certainly not in the public consciousness in the same way cannabis is—I’m almost as certain that that IS higher than ever.

I’m curious about your last statement. Scaling makes sense as a cost factor, but are you saying that lower barriers for production would increase the cost? That seems backwards to me.

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#368

Post by filoeleven »

nearbuy wrote: post #291
filoeleven wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint: PFOA / PFAS long chain polymers even at extremely low levels act as endocrine disruptors. DuPont leaks this stuff at its plants, people living near by have elevated types of specific cancers, and nothing is done. If you can get 20 years for two sheets of LSD, I’d expect life in prison for everyone at the companies who continue to leak this toxic stuff, and full payment of affected people:s medical bills…

Presumably they aren't dumping beyond the legal limits. That's how our system works. The EPA or other agencies attempt to determine what's safe, the government makes some regulations, and if you follow those regulations, you don't go to prison. Even if the regulations are bad.

In addition to a regulation’s existence, EPA must also do the testing and prosecute violations. I’m not sure they do here, even before the trump era, especially since for a while EPA was steadily lowering the safe limits. I think instances of that are contained within those articles, but unfortunately they are walls of text and you and I have no reason to greatly trust my memory.

My post was in response to this question:

> I can see the perspective that making, having, or dealing [LSD] is an unacceptable risk of harm to people who didn't consent. Is there some reason that's unrealistic?

My point was that the factors of “unacceptable risk” in regulations are laden with things that have nothing to do with actual levels of harm to people. You corroborated that point with your post; I’m only clarifying here. This is the system we have, and it can be quite bad at actual harm reduction due to cultural factors.

It’s weird to live in a world where a substance that showed great promise in therapy, fighting alcoholism and other addictions etc. has been banned for 50 years, while another substance that makes dish washing and floor cleaning easier but causes cancer and birth defects in people close to where it’s made is broadly sanctioned.

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#369

Post by filoeleven »

perl4ever wrote: post #361
BurningFrog wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no LSD radiation though. It can't beam itself into your mouth. Bystanders are never inadvertently drugged.

>Bystanders are never inadvertently drugged I don't have a counterexample, as the allegations I was reading on Wikipedia are generally of intentionally drugging people,[1][2] but I wouldn't be particularly confident in your statement; how would one know it hasn't happened? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1951_Pont-Saint-Esprit_mass_po... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra#LSD

Yes. At any gathering of a certain type that’s large enough, like a music festival, you run the risk of eating or drinking something that’s been spiked with something. Most people who do so try to be up front about the “bonus content,” but because of legality they will often couch it in lingo like “space brownies” and the like. If you don’t know what that means, you could be in for a wild ride without anyone having ill intentions.

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#370

Post by filoeleven »

gvhst wrote: post #314
perl4ever wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having no experience with it, nonetheless, the popular impression of LSD is that an incredibly small amount of it can be on something and inadvertently ingested, so I can see the perspective that making, having, or dealing it is an unacceptable risk of harm to people who didn't consent. Is there some reason that's unrealistic?

By what mechanism will people who didn't consent come into contact with LSD? As residue accidentally transferred by physical contact? By that logic peanuts and other tree nuts should be illegal because trances of its oils can kill those who are sensitive, unlike LSD which is pharmacologically safe. Additionally, while there are many examples of trace residues of tree nuts triggering anaphylactic shock in those not di…

A friend of mine was dosed without her knowledge or consent at a festival. She thinks it was from a cup of punch she was given, input to this day can’t be sure of the route of ingestion. She was familiar with LSD and realized what was happening, but was not prepared for it and had a rough time.

It’s completely irresponsible to give someone a drug without consent, outside of some forms of medical intervention, regardless of your intentions.

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